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Hitchens: Does the left really want the U.S. to lose?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    actually, that's rather the point. it's all new, based as it is on evidence found after the invasion.
     
    #161 basso, Aug 10, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2005
  2. AggieRocket

    AggieRocket Contributing Member

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    It's truly scary that Basso refuses to admit that we were wrong on some of our reasons for the war. I think that even Bush would admit that there was some error. Neocons today are brainwashed and that is crazy. The far right needs to remember how to think and use logic. Our party was once the party of rational thinking and logic. Too bad we aren't that party anymore.
     
  3. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you're assuming i'm far right, whatever that actually means, simply because i support the war. i suppose you're right, if support for gun control and gay marriage is far right.
     
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  5. AggieRocket

    AggieRocket Contributing Member

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    Actually I'm not. If you support gay marriage and gun control, then I'm more "far right" than you are because I do not support gay marriage nor do I support gun control. However, I do assume that you will never, under any circumstance, admit that we were wrong in going to war. Am I incorrect in assuming this?
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    No, it is not the party you once knew, and the party that once had leaders that I admired, despite being far more "to the left" in my beliefs then, than I am now. What basso is exhibiting here, as he does so often, is the disingenuous claim to truly be a moderate. He says he is for gay marriage and gun control which, in his mind, makes ignoring the facts about his President's lies regarding his voluntary war somehow OK. basso ignores the facts over and over again, because they prove his President is a liar to the American people, and to the world.

    That's not unusual. Bush himself never admits to being wrong, and he promotes those who orchestrated his perfidy. You have fine company, basso... it includes the man "who cannot be wrong," George W. Bush. Revel in your delusion. Bush does.



    Keep D&D Civil!!
     
  7. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    That's called, grasping for straws, after the fact. Or rather, to rationalize ones action in order to save face.
     
    #167 DavidS, Aug 10, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2005
  8. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you are incorrect. i just haven't seen anything to suggest we were wrong. i believe in the mission, and i believe the war is just outside of whatever the rationale du jour may be. i've said many times bush is hardly the best advocate for his own policies, and the war in iraq is case one. does mean he's wrong however.
     
  9. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    actually, it's called facts.
     
  10. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    It's one thing to say removing Saddam was a good thing and then convince the public on that idea. It's another to misuse intel that told us that there were no WMD; then blame the Iraqis for 911. In the Neo-cons view it didn't matter since they had created the WMD in their minds! They took advantge of peoples prejudices by using populism for revenge after 911.

    This was the harbinger for invasion. Then later one could spin the story, after the fact (It vanished! Hey! It's possible! Blah, blah, blah...). Keep up this kind of dishonesty and see where it gets you in the eyes of other Muslims -- and the world in general.

    The world will never support these kind of policies. It's despicable!

    These type of deceptive policies are unchristian, and I wont support it either. What's sad, is that it is the conservative base that will suffer because it is the kids of these kinds of families that were duped and sent to war -- partially due to economic reasons and partially due to ignorance.
     
    #170 DavidS, Aug 10, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2005
  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Sometimes the mistake isn't really a mistake.
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    This is slightly off-topic, so appologize in advance...

    I have noticed that some on this board refer to Bush as "your president" when addressing someone who is a Bush supporter. I just wanted to say that I think it's very dangerous for the future/stability of our democracy when people refuse to acknowledge the current man in the White House as "our" president, which means that they are in effect delegitimizing the process that elected the sitting president, saying things like "your president" and "my president". I understand many dislike Bush and disapporove of his policies, but I think as Americans we ALL should respect the democratic process and its outcome, even if it displeases you when your guy comes up short.

    Just wanted to point this out, now please carry on... :)
     
    #172 tigermission1, Aug 10, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2005
  13. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Actually, what Basso. and Hayes and some of the other big pro-war guys on this bbs are is what is frequently referred to as neocons. Hayes, as he does in most of his posts will quibble and parse, but the shoe generally fits. They are relatively moderate except for when it comes to militarism. The Democratic used to have more of these guys.


    They have good company. Don't think Cheney, Rumsfeld. Wolfowitz, the Jewish neocons around Bush with their allegiance to a right wing view of Israel and its expansion, are probably against abortion or gay rights. Despite the fact they will start wars or invade other countries frequently or are paranoidly constantly in search of enemies to claim as great threats, they may hot be against gun control. Many have no problems with welfare spending, maybe even a progressive tax system, believe in evoloution, separation of church and state. They might be atheists.

    It is just with regard to militarism, a high level of paranoia and exageration of the threat to the most dominant country the world has ever seen, from often times two bit third world countries and the extreme dominance that they place on military force as an instrument of foreign policy, that they seem so illogical, so stubbornly reject contrary facts and are so out of the mainstream.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    No, the only conceivable reason I would have for "wanting" the failure that is happening/has already happened is so that basso will look like a buffoon on a basketball BBS, which I think may happen of its own accord often enough to negate the need for the hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded and the irreperable political and economic damage that the war and its inept proponents and administrators have resulted in so far. So, First Lieutenant Basso and the anti-WISHCRIME police, move along, nothing to see here.
     
  15. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    I would think that most of people who are for an AGGRESSIVE war are people who benefit $$$ from it.. directly or indirectly..

    there's alot of money out there.. defense contractors, military equipment, oil companies, outsourcing, security consultants, etc...

    so who's the winner of this war? it's not the american or iraqi people but whoever can squeeze the most profit from it..
     
  16. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Don't forget those who subscribe to the concept of religious war - Christianity vs Islam. Because of the zealotry, they can be just as aggressive as the ones you mentioned. These two groups of people are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but I think the intersection of the two sets is not extensive.

    In a broader sense, the super majority of the (Iraq) War supporters were bought into this idea of "they hate our freedom", which essentially means the mass perceive that the enemy (in this case Saddam's Iraq) wanted to wreck havoc on our way of life by messing with the cheap and steady flow of oil into this country. Unfortunately for them, a couple of doses of reality set in. Record profits for oil companies have not translated into cheaper gasoline prices. Moreover, heavier than expected loss of lives (mainly U.S. troops) has taken bigger and bigger tolls on the hoi polloi.

    After being fed with enough carefully crafted propaganda, the general populace can readily be manipulated to embrace another war.
     

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