Hitchens: Does the left really want the U.S. to lose?

batman- it's always nice to hear from you, even if you seem to be limited to post-by-proxy these days. i'll love for you to share some original thoughts at some time.

as for FB's post, impassioned and heartfelt though it may have been, it boils down to the realization that people die in war and that this is bad, ergo the war is bad. no one is arguing the former point, but the latter point is just bull****. the battle for iraq is but one in a war that started long before 9/11 or the advent of the bush administration, and that war will not cease on january 20, 2009, or when we withdraw from iraq. the front may shift, but the war will drag on. as long as evil men use evil, fascist ideology to attack us, we will have to confron this meance.

did iraq have a role in 9/11? perhaps, perhaps not. i find it impossible to gaze upon the airplane fuselage training facility at salmaan pak and believe it's just a coincidence. did iraq have connections to al queda. without a doubt. to pretend otherwise is to close your eyes to mountains of evidence that has been uncovered since the war. did iraq posses WMD prior to the war? yes. where are they now? noone knows, nor have any of the various reports provided a convincing explanation of what happened to them.

I didn't need george bush to tell me iraq was a threat. post 9/11, it was obvious. it should have been obvious before. whether you agree or disagree with how we got there, all americans should be able to agree that the best way to support the troops, and indeed support all americans, is to win this damn war.

batman, you used to be one of the more interesting posters on this board. i find it sad that not only can you know longer post for yourself, apparently you're no longer able to think for yourself either.

 

you might want to think about why we're the only ones left...no pun intended

 

in light of this report, and much other info we already have, would any of you support military action against either iran or syria if it were proven their governements were supporting terroist ops in iraq?

EDIT: military action could mean anything from strategic bombing to full scale invasion.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/10/iran.iraq/index.html

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Rumsfeld: Iraq bombs 'clearly from Iran'
Tehran denies involvement

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Tuesday that weapons recently confiscated in Iraq were "clearly, unambiguously from Iran" and admonished Tehran for allowing the explosives to cross the border.

Iran's defense minister denied the claims in a report carried by the state-run news agency IRNA.

According to Ali Shamkhani, Iran is playing no role in Iraqi affairs, including "its alleged involvement in bomb explosions."

The shipment of sophisticated bombs was confiscated in the past two weeks by U.S. and Iraqi troops in southern Iraq, senior U.S. officials said Monday.

Although he would not comment on whether the Iranian government was directly involved, Rumsfeld said, "it's notably unhelpful for the Iranians to be allowing weapons of those types to be crossing the border."

"What you do know of certain knowledge is the Iranians did not stop it from coming in," he said.

Rumsfeld said the weapons create problems for the Iraqi government, coalition forces and the international community.

"And ultimately, it's a problem for Iran," he added.

When asked if that was a threat of possible retaliation, Rumsfeld replied, "I don't imply threats. You know that."

"They (the Iranians) live in the neighborhood. The people in that region want this situation stabilized with the exception of Iran and Syria," he said.

The U.S. officials said the weapons were more lethal and more sophisticated than the bombs typically used by Iraqi insurgents.

After examining the truckload of weapons, intelligence analysts said the explosive parts are similar to those used by Iran's Revolutionary Guard.

While there is no evidence Iran's government sanctioned the weapons shipment, the analysts said it may indicate a rogue element inside Iran is making the weapons and trying to ship them to Iraq's insurgents.

Troops found the bombs inside crates seized near a border crossing on the Iraqi side, the officials said.

Three senior U.S. officials told CNN the weapons were made in such a way that their blast would have been focused in a single direction, thereby increasing their lethality.

One official said the shipment included "tens" of bombs.

 

and a follow up, how do you all feel about nuclear armed iran? should the US prevent such an eventuality, by any means necessary?

 

arguing facts? facts are objective truths. we're arguing opinions. i'm not going to go dig through your old posts and find something you feel i didn't respond adequetly too. if you have something to offer in this thread, other than the opinions of others, by all means offfer it up. if it's sufficiently provacative or interesting, i'm sure it will engender discussion.

as for FB's post, i responded to it. sorry you didn't like what i said, but you can't argue i ignored it. or rather, you can, you'd just be wrong.

 

i would say there's no way this administration allows iran to go nuclear. if the iranis are adamant, we will confront them militarily.