These are the primary changes that the Suns have made. Traded G Jason Kidd to the New Jersey Nets for G Stephon Marbury. Traded F Clifford Robinson to the Detroit Pistons for F John Wallace and G-F Jud Buechler. Drafted F-C Alton Ford of Houston. And if they don't trade him, Anfernee Hardaway and also Tom Gugliotta. So how would you say the Suns did? My opinion 1. Kidd for Marbury - I think the Nets came out as winners. Pheonix gets more scoring and excitement, but they lose out on assists, rebounds, and court vision. 2. Horrible trade for the Suns. Robinson is still a solid player. They pretty much traded their starting power forward for two veterans beyond their prime. His police record shouldn't matter. 3. I can't wait to see this guy get eaten alive in the pros. 4. It's a plus, but will Hardaway come through? Will he injure himself again? Will Marbury and Googs get along? Thank you, Pheonix Suns. I think you just left a playoff spot wide open to the Rockets. Any thoughts? ------------------ Long Live The Catomic Bomb. DON'T TRADE DOTEL!
on the suns espn page, it said they might do a trade like this : penny hardaway tom gugliotta for michael dickerson stromile swift bryant reeves and others to make the trade work , but it sounded more like the suns wanted it more than the grizz ------------------ mgh 1924 - 2001 http://www.al-gore-2004.org/
The Grizzlies would be morons. Those two players have a lot of potential, and they would be traded for two coming off injuries. Yes, they would get rid of Big Country, but that would be stupid. ------------------ Long Live The Catomic Bomb. DON'T TRADE DOTEL!
yes i know , but they did trade bibby for williams, so they might do anything. plus isnt hardaway from memphis? they might think he'll be the hometown hero that brings fans in. but i agree the grizzlies would be stupid to do it. ------------------ mgh 1924 - 2001 http://www.al-gore-2004.org/ [This message has been edited by dc rock (edited July 29, 2001).]
Mmm hmm. Vanc - Memphis was already raped by a number of teams in their franchise's history...you're right dcrock, I wouldn't be surprised. ------------------ Long Live The Catomic Bomb. DON'T TRADE DOTEL!
My first post after lurking for an extensive period of time. The Kidd for Marbury trade wasn´t that stupid when you consider that Marbury is four years younger than Kidd. Trading away Robinson for Wallace and Buechler will not make them better, but wasn´t that a cap related move? There is the off chanse that Wallace would suddenly have a break through year, but I don´t think that will happen. They still have a lot of good forwards. I don´t know much about Alton Ford , but I somehow don´t think he´ll be eaten alive. Suns draft picks tend to surprise. Penny and Googs for Swift and Dickerson would make the suns worse short term, but would add more potential to the team. I think the suns are worse than last year, but they are still a quality team and a little bit more exciting. I really can´t see them not making the playoffs, but who knows, the west is tough. ------------------ There are many colors in the homo rainbow. Don´t be afraid to let your colors shine.
If you ask me -- and let's just pretend you did -- the Suns don't want to make the playoffs this season. Luxury tax aside, the message of their trades is that they KNOW they can't beat the Lakers in the next couple of years ... so they're rebuilding with younger players (Marbury, Marion, Tsakalidis) whom they hope will peak around 2003 or 2004 -- when, they hope, something might have derailed the Shaq-Kobe dynasty. A lottery pick next summer would only help. IMO, Portland is doing the same thing. A year ago, they traded Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis because they wanted to "win now." This summer, they traded Steve Smith for Derek Anderson because they hope to win in a few years. ------------------ "I personally wouldn't give up my college years for anything. It was the funnest time I have ever had. But with the money they are getting, you can't blame a kid for coming out." —Jazz forward Scott Padgett, demonstrating the value of a college education
Originally posted by Legendary21: "The Kidd for Marbury trade wasn´t that stupid when you consider that Marbury is four years younger than Kidd." But they are two point guards with two totally different games. But you're right, if they are building for the distant future that is a brilliant move. "Trading away Robinson for Wallace and Buechler will not make them better, but wasn´t that a cap related move? There is the off chanse that Wallace would suddenly have a break through year, but I don´t think that will happen. They still have a lot of good forwards." They say it's for the cap, but I think they traded Kidd and Robinson away for their off-the-court problems. "I don´t know much about Alton Ford , but I somehow don´t think he´ll be eaten alive. Suns draft picks tend to surprise." Legendary, if you are a Pheonix fan, don't be expecting too much from Alton Ford. I've seen almost all of his college games, and, believe me, he is nowhere near ready for the NBA. "Penny and Googs for Swift and Dickerson would make the suns worse short term, but would add more potential to the team." I agree 100% Actually they would make the Suns better long term and short term. "I think the suns are worse than last year, but they are still a quality team and a little bit more exciting. I really can´t see them not making the playoffs, but who knows, the west is tough." You know what? The Clippers are scary. 1. LA 2. Sac 3. Big D 4. SA 5. Port 6. Twolves 7. Rockets (deal with it ) 8. Clippers/suns ------------------ Long Live The Catomic Bomb. DON'T TRADE DOTEL!
Actually I think Memphis wants that trade more than Phoenix - from all reports Phoenix don't want to do the trade - why is it so good for Memphis? Sure they'd be trading away some potential in Swift and a solid SG in Dickerson, but the return would be of more benefit to them as a team in more ways than one. For starters they score Penny Hardaway, a popular NBA player (just what they need when trying to make an impact in a new city - hence the Bibby/ Williams swap) and maybe they think that Hardaway has had his terrible run of injuries and it's time for him to have an injury free season for a change. Gugliotta is currently 10 times the player that Swift is (and that's not saying much) - while Swift has looked pretty good in the summer leagues, let's not forget that he's overly slender for a PF and they have just drafted a 7'1 European who fulfills all the potential they need - match him up with Battier and suddenly there's a couple of young guys who could benefit from a veterans tutelage - who better than a former all-star in Gugliotta? And as a bonus, Memphis would be unloading Reeves immense contract. Now if there's anyone out there who can illustrate that this trade favours the Suns then please tell me how!! ------------------
Since when did John Wallace have a prime? And Phoenix changed for the worse. Their lengthy playoff streak should be coming to the end. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
Next season, Clifford Robinson will make roughly 1.35 million dollars more than Buechler and Wallace combined. The year after that, he'll be an 8+ million dollar cap hit on any team. Let's not forget Robinson's in his mid 30's as well. Wallace will be off the books after this season, so he'll get his tryout with the team and if he doesn't perform, they lose nothing and gain cap room. Buechler counts against the cap for two more seasons, and can be a valuable player if put in the right situation, which makes him a good gamble, because even if he doesn't workout for the Suns, it will be relatively easy for them to trade him to a contender for cap space ie: future picks sometime in the future. The only way the Suns can go after a Vince Carter or Raef Lafrentz next summer, is if they rid themselves of one of their 2 cap albatrosses, Penny and Googs, with Penny being the player they'd preferrably like to move. Reason being, even with the departure of Uncle Cliffy, the Suns are still over the cap for next season barring any major trades. I think they have cap space in 03'-04', but I doubt they're saving their money to go after one of the free agents from that class. As far as the Marbury for Kidd trade goes, I think New Jersey got the best end of that deal. People don't realize how much of Marion's success was in due part to Kidd. Hell, Googs won't even resemble the player he once was next season now that Kidd's gone imo. I just have a feeling that Marbury might exlcude him from the offense, opting to pass exclusively to Wallace, a New York homie, Marion, and Delk. Concerning the proposed Memphis/Suns trade, I think Big Country is a deal killer. I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on a somewhat proven scoring, uninjured shooting guard with a smooth stroke, who can play the uptempo game, and a potential player in Swift. However, I don't think any team wants a part of Reeves' final year on his contract, which comes in at 14.4 million. Sure, you could point out the Grizzlies would be taking on 2 enormous contracts, but the difference is, Googs and Penny can help that team substantially. Country would only hinder the development of Big Jake, a cheaper, better alternative at center. From the Grizzlies perspective, they would have dealt a player like Bibby, who the fans likely wouldn't have embraced, and attendance, more than winning, is the Grizzlies top priority. Swift is probably a player they'd have a hard time giving up, though imo he's not that good and won't amount to much(which is the same way I feel about Jonathan Bender btw), but Googs IS the better player, and would bring them closer to the realm of respectability than Stromile would. ------------------ The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation
Does anybody have a Googs quote on playing with SM in Phoenix? Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Dream threads!
"You have to give up something great to get something great," said Gugliotta, who spoke to Marbury Friday. "I know there's been a lot of talk that we'd didn't get along. I think he's a hell of player, and so is Jason." http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0701sunsmarbury.html (NOTE: When he signed with Phoenix, Gugliotta was quoted as saying how wonderful it would be to play with a true, pass-first point guard.) ------------------ "I personally wouldn't give up my college years for anything. It was the funnest time I have ever had. But with the money they are getting, you can't blame a kid for coming out." —Jazz forward Scott Padgett, demonstrating the value of a college education
On the pages (both grizz and suns) it says that the SUNS WANT to also trade gugliotta for swift. ------------------ mgh 1924 - 2001 http://www.al-gore-2004.org/
Oh yes you can! Dallas is deeper, younger, and more athletic then both San Antonio AND Sacramento, and they have more weapons. I think Dallas will win the Midwest title next year. It wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs won it, but I'm picking Dallas to win it. This Dallas team will be MUCH more experienced then then last year. They remind me of the Spurs in 1998, who lost to the Jazz 4-1, then turned around and improved the next year, and even won a title. ------------------ What if I say to you that the universe is a three-legged horse, eh? What then? - Russell Hoban [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 30, 2001).]
LOL! And people say Mango has no humor. Googs has got to be kicking himself. He took less money to get to Phoenix. ------------------ "Larry Johnson, who spent the last 48 hours railing against the world, what a pathetic performance by this sad human being." -The one and only Bill Walton
Don't forget about them picking up the undrafted Charlie Bell for their backup pg. Bell averaged 19 points and around 6 assists in summer league. He is a steal for not even being drafted, and is much more ready to make an impact than Alton Ford is. ------------------ Check out my site: The Steve Francis Fan Site
