Question is what is rape. Where does consent begin and end If you kissing and huggin and 'slip' in . . . before the 'victim' has a chance to say yea or nay . . is it rape what if you in and they say STOP 5 minutes in? What if the victim is drunk? what is coercion? Peer Pressure? What if sex happens and after the fact they decide it was not a good idea? Rocket River I just keep out of the situation all together ------------------
I don't understand part of that TAASA site. They have a quiz, and one of the true/false questions is: Women "cry rape" after consenting to sex and later changing their minds. They say this is "false" and then in their explanation go on to say that about 2% of reported rapes are estimated to be false reports. So, the answer is actually "true in some cases", rather than "false". My problem with the statistics on the page (repeated here) is that they give no break down of the sexual assault figures per type. How many of the estimated non-reported rapes are consenual but statuatory rape? How many are coersion (which many groups consider to be rape, even when the woman consents. If you talk a woman into having sex with you, some would consider that rape)? How many were dimished capacity rapes (where the female is drunk, but still conscious, and consents to the sex, but because of her dimished capacity, she couldn't actually consent (This is considered rape by many, too, even if the male is also drunk). I'd also be interested in knowing the methodology used to estimate these numbers of non-reported rapes. Since statistics have been misused so often to support agendas, it's hard to put any faith in any numbers. Simply throwing the stat out there isn't enough for me anymore. ------------------ Houston Sports Board
Speaking of stats, here's one: In 1985, Mary Koss, a professor at Kent State University, surveyed approximately 7,000 students on thirty-two campuses on behalf of Ms. magazine and found that one in eight women were the victims of rape. One in every twelve men admitted to having forced a woman to have intercourse or tried to force a woman to have intercourse through physical force or coercion; that is, admitted to raping or attempting to rape a woman. Virtually none of these men, however, identified themselves as rapists. Similarly, only 57% of the women who had been raped labeled their experience as rape; the other 43% had not even acknowledged to themselves that they had been raped. So, 43% of the women that Ms. Magazine says were raped say they hadn't been raped. I suspect many of these cases were either mildish coercion (not unlike the example I give in the next paragraph) or other situations were reasonable people wouldn't consider the sex to be rape. (On college campuses, I would bet that many "rapes" happen when the participants drink too much and engage in activities they wouldn't otherwise have. To me, that isn't necessarily rape, though. It depends on the other circumstances. In these stats, though, such instances would always be rape.) I think that adding coercion in makes the category of "rape" to broad (no pun intended). For example, let's say I'm staying with my girlfriend at my parent's house. I say something to the effect of: "Let's have sex." She then says, "No, your parents might hear." I then say, "No they won't, they're sound sleepers." She then says, "Okay then." Technically, I've coerced my girlfriend into having sex, and I've committed rape under many definitions. ------------------ Houston Sports Board
Originally posted by Jeff: Yes, I would expect that if I had left the door to my apartment open I would have had something stolen. That is why I lock my apartment. That is why I take the keys out of my car and lock the doors when I drive somewhere. There are basic, common sense things that you doin order not to put yourself in a dangerous situation. If a drunk, horny teenager is presented with a naked girl that allows him to touch her breasts, I would put my money on them having sex. Does that eliminate all responsibilty for the man's actions? No, but I do think that the girl should share the responsibility. I do not think that what he does would be the same as someone snatching a woman off of the street and raping her in a dark alley. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
What exactly does "sharing in the responsibility" mean? Are you suggesting that she be punished for this or just that the person who assaulted her (if that indeed happened) be let go? Where do you draw the line? What about strip clubs? Strippers are not routinely raped by patrons and they do far more than flash drunk men. As for allowing a teenager to touch her breasts, who said she allowed him to do anything. Do you routinely reach into people's car windows to fondle them? If a woman takes off her top, does that immediately mean her breasts are fair game to any stray hand that comes her direction? In some cities (and certainly on beaches), it is legal for women to walk around topless. Are they simply fair game? Getting back to the home/car comparison for a moment, what would you consider fair if you left your door unlocked to your home and someone came in and cleaned you out? Would it be fair to allow the criminals to go unpunished? Would it be fair for your insurance company to deny your claim based on your carelesness? What if the insurance company and police said, "Hey, you left your doors unlocked. You have all this nice stuff. You were asking for it." I agree that there are huge differences between say a serial rapist and, for example, statuatory rape that was simply sex between consentual people one being a young adult and the other not (say 19 to 16). But, that isn't for us to decide. It is for a judge to decide based on the circumstances of the case. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
Would it be fair for your insurance company to deny your claim based on your carelesness? What if the insurance company and police said, "Hey, you left your doors unlocked. You have all this nice stuff. You were asking for it." Actually, some insurance companies would deny the claim based on that. I know our former car insurance company was balking at paying for our stolen car when it was revealed that we forgot to close the garage the night the car was stolen (and the keys were in the ignition, which was something that my parents routinely did before that night). Fortunately, we didn't have to fight it since the car was found unharmed a couple of days after the theft. But I think that's different than the rape thing anyway. Personally, I do think that the behavior of the victim is taken into account during rape trials and that behavior often does result in lesser punishments for the offender. I don't know that it's necessarily right, but I think the victim's actions are often a mitigating factor in trials (and in whether the alleged offender is even brought to trial. Only about 80% of people arrested for rape are prosecuted. And only about half of reported rapes result in arrest. I would venture to guess that at least some of those cases where the rape isn't prosecuted or thea alleged offender isn't arrested, the bahavior of the victim played a part in the decision to not arrest or not prosecute). ------------------ Houston Sports Board
Jeff, I can only go off of what I read. And when I said that I felt that the girl should share the responsibility, I only meant that it should be a mitigating factor in the sentancing of the "rapist". Maybe someone that was led on in such a way would only be charged with a misdemeanor, or given a reduced sentance. I just think it is unfair to ruin someone's life going soley off of what is presented in the article. If I left my door unlocked I would not say that I was inviting theives to steal, no. If I left my door wide open and went to a movie, then yes I would expect that all of my stuff could be gone when I got back and I do not think that my insurance would cover my lapse in common sense if there was a video of me leaving my house with the door open. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
What did the idiot think was going to happen when she took off her top and allowed people to fondle her. You don't cover yourself in honey and jump into a bear pit and then sue the zoo. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
