If you want to send a letter to your Congressman and/or Senators about drilling at ANWR, click here: http://www.savebiogems.org/arctic/ ------------------
Put the crack pipe down. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
rH, Supposedly in the state's constitution all Alaskans own the mineral/oil/whatever rights on state owned grounds. However, since ANWR is federally owned, that status is most likely different. As far as royalties go, Alaskans get the Permanent Fund Dividend every October, in which the state pays every Alaskan about $2000 for just living here. The money comes from oil royalties and is invested every year to keep the cash flow going strong. Also, many people like to point out that caribou populations in the Prudhoe Bay area (the main oil drilling area on the north slope) have thrived since the oil companies moved in. They neglect to point out that the effects from the modernization of that area have killed off all the natural predators of caribou in that area, so of course the caribou are going to thrive. Problem is, eventually the caribou herds are going to become too large for the environment to handle and they are going to run out of food and starve to death, thus causing the caribou herds to crash. This has happened several times before in other areas in Alaska. ------------------ The Rockets never lose, they just get outscored occasionally
Just have people hunt the 'bou to control the population, should be no problem in keeping the numbers down. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
The natives take priority in hunting in Alaska because they have subsistence rights. Unlike the lower 48, A LOT of people in Alaska depend on subsistence not only as a way of life but also to survive. When you live 300 miles from a road you have to do what you have to do. It's not like you can run down to the corner convenience store everytime you get hungry. Just having a bunch of outsiders come in every fall and kill off a bunch of caribou makes zero biological sense. Hence the reason natives who live near the refuge don't want this to happen; they know it has a very good chance of disrupting their primary food source. ------------------ The Rockets never lose, they just get outscored occasionally
Yes, but oil rigs will ensure that every man, woman, child, and caribou live within 100 yards of the nearest road. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
In ANWR/the North Slope that ain't likely. ------------------ The Rockets never lose, they just get outscored occasionally
What does caribou taste like? ------------------ Cuttino: When you have thousands of people telling you, 'You can do it, you can do it,' it helps you out an awful lot.
Although I probably sound like a hypocrite, it's actually pretty good ------------------ The Rockets never lose, they just get outscored occasionally
For the people who doubt creationism: Aren't humans a part of evolution and therefor natural? Wouldn't that make whatever people do a part of nature? Why should the caribou have any more right to the land than an oil rig? Environmentalists really bug me. There are many circumstances where they are opposed to something but don't provide an alternative solution. They say, "Don't drill for oil." But when you try to build an alternative power source there is always something else. "That dam is destroying the ecosystem." "That nuclear power plant is producing radioactive waste." Guess what, there are no perfect solutions, and therefor we have to make do with what we have until something better comes along. If you really want to stop people from drilling for oil, stop buying things that use oil. If you can get enough people tio follow you there will be no need to get more oil. I guarantee that you will fail though, because most people have figured out that radical environmentalism is rediculous. Try to come up with some solutions instead of just pointing out problems. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
What's the alternative? Sun power cannot take me back and forth to work each day (reliably). Neither can wind. Oil. It's what we use for many things…cars, trucks, boats, trains. I think we are more linked to oil than any other natural resource. Back to my question…What's the alternative? I agree that we need to create another source of power…but what will take the place of oil? It would be nice if we only had oil in places where no one cares, but you have to go get it where it is. I don't like drilling, nuclear plants, coal plants or any form of resource waste or pollution. But come up with an alternative. We are oil dependent. It's easy to slam something and come in with a righteous attitude, but come up with the solution or we will all be sitting in the dark like CA (which is a different but similar problem - they didn't want to build any nuke plants because of the issues - it's fine that they exist in NV just not CA - duh it's 1 world folks). ------------------
What makes dubya and his cronies think that if we drill in Alaska it is going to solve our oil problems? Do you honestly think they are going to drill and sell us cheaper oil? I thought that any oil that gets sold on the market has to be sold at market price. Therefor, it would have to compete with OPEC (read middle eastern and other oil) and therefor be priced accordingly. We will not get lower gas prices or cheaper oil costs. From what I understand there's enough oil in the Mid East to last several lifetimes. This whole Alaska oil thing is about lining the pockets of all of dubya's cronies. Cheney has close ties to Haliburton (major oil/oil supply company) I am willing to bet that almost every one of dubya's "good ol boy" friends and his fathers friends would benefit from drilling in Alaska! It's all greed and money and oil for these people. They have no concern about the impact of their actions now or in the future. We are all headed for hell in a handbasket and dubya and his friends are showing us the way. We are just along for the ride. I'm ill. {insert puking sounds here, big chunks and plenty of liquid} have a nice day! rH [This message has been edited by rockHEAD (edited March 29, 2001).]
They already manufacture electric cars (completely electric). Charge one at home in your solar powered home. No oil. The point isn't that environmentalists are simply saying "Don't use it." Some are, but the vast majority have proposed alternatives for years only to be ignored by the major industries. Only now that car companies see the problems with raising gas prices and dwindling supplies of natural resources do they stoop to offer a gas/electric hybrid. It's a step in the right direction. Whenever an environmentalist says, "Let's try something different," someone who doesn't want to change says, "Well, don't just tell me to change, propose an alternative." They have over and over again and only now when we are at the brink of a literal energy crisis does anyone bother to listen. I don't think that we will "replace" oil as a source for power anytime soon. I think I've been careful to point that out. However, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that alternatives aren't out there. We are creative people. We somehow managed to come up with computers, an internet (well, Al Gore did that ), DVD's and satellite communications. We flew men to the moon (if you believe that ) and back. We learned how to fly and cure illnesses. If we had an entire industry focused as dillegently on searching for alternate forms of power as they are currently focused on searching for more ways to reuse the same batch of man made chemicals and oil dug from the ground, we wouldn't even have to have this discussion. Everyone asks environmentalists for the alternatives because they say those of us who believe we are environmentalists (in some sense of the word) don't have any answers. We just want to whine and complain. That simply isn't true. The answers are there for all of us to use on a daily basis. There are more to be discovered if people will just get creative and look. Instead of whining about how those wanting to protect the environment are always whining, maybe we should all be looking for the answers. It is easy to make the excuse that we can't do it because there are no alternatives. It is much smarter (and braver, frankly) to ignore our fears and work at it harder. Nothing ever got done by sitting around, making excuses and complaining. As far as I'm concerned, that goes as much for the whiny environmentalists as it does for everyone else. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
Oil is not just used as a source of power. Do you have anything made of plastic? That comes from oil. Do you use Sweet and Low? That comes from oil. Most lubricants? Oil. It is not as simple as switching to solar power. For one thing, battery storage does not have the capability rigth now to recharge enough during the day to power everything at night. Also, many solar panel components, made of oil. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
My intent was not to whine about whining. I just wanted to point out that while there are some alternatives, most contain other prices we may not want to pay. Solar power costs a fortune to install and only works to full capacity on sunny days and even in some of the larger homes, you better have a larger lot for all those solar cell - oh add get rid of those trees - they are blocking the sun. Electric cars? $30K+ and you might want a home charger - add on another $10K - and you better get home before dark in order to charge it in your solar home. The airlines would love you though, because your long trip days by road are over. You might be pushing on that last leg to Conroe. And better hope you don't get in a wreck cause battery acid is not a pleasant thing. And the battery disposal centers better start expanding. Hybrid cars are a better solution - but who owns them? Very few. I think we will see more and more as the cost goes down and people become more comfortable buying one…though according to CR, the gas mileage is not everything they say (@40mpg - while still good - everyone would have to drive one to make much of a difference). Your right we do need to spend more time and effort on creating a real solution. There are many smart people in many colleges doing many things. I'm not sure why, but this does not seem to be high on their list either. Hopeless? I hope not. ------------------
Art: You are right. There should be more work done on all of this but there isn't because it isn't profitable. Period. When it becomes so, we will see a dramatic change. The point I've been trying to make is that we don't have to abandon oil to reduce consumption. Any good stock portfolio manager will tell you the key to success in the long term with the market is diversification. Any good big company knows that if they are sitting still, they are moving backwards. We have been sitting still on alternate sources of power for 50 years. Still nothing. The longer we sit, the more our resources are depleted and the more necessary alternate power. By the way, I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but you can get an electric car for well under $25 K including the charger. As for solar cells, they have made dramatic improvements and they can hold a charge for WEEKS, not hours. In fact, a good set of solar cells can store up enough energy in one day (cloudy or sunny) to keep you on full power for two weeks. I just saw a terrific show recently on Discovery Channle all about the solar cells and their advancements. They will only get better if we actually work on them. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
For those of you suggesting we move towards electric cars, solar panels, etc: Do any of you own electric cars or use solar panels? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
I will fight you now, shanna of the devil's advocate triad. Heee ya! I'm buying a house this summer (I've been an apathetic money grubbing jerk for the past few years, but I'm reclaiming my soul) and I promise your questioning, never offering an opinion satanic self, that I will put solar panels on my house. I'm also in the process of hunting down an old car to convert it... happy now pansie? ------------------ (===)
Achebe, Tell us how it goes. I've never heard any 1st hand info on solar energy. I'm afraid I have too many trees where I live (I guess you can now tell I don't live in Houston anymore), but I'm genuinely interested any energy altnernatives. I'm not trying to take up for the oil companies (I don't trust them any more than the tobacco companies), but I like my oil using products. But I cannot imagine that there is an endless supply of oil, so I think even the oil companies better come up with a better solution. Jeff, I wish I had seen that show - I cut back on the cable since the kids were watching too much - they didn't complain at all and now do more things with games, puzzles, etc - but that's another subject - though as a extra note, I think I've felt more pain then they have. I was using numbers I remember reading about 3 years ago. And I agree with your statement about diversify. Not only will that will make our supplies last longer but it will step by step move us away from old (polluting) technology. I do wish more colleges would come up with more alternative energy programs. And I know the space program gives us lots of things, but I like to see some govt $ go towards fision experiments - getting it to happen. Then maybe one day I'll have a Mr. Fision on my DeLorian. ------------------
For UT dwellers, it turns out that the company that owns the electric company here is trying to encourage wind power. They'll come out to your house and setup their testing equipment to see if your home is a viable candidate. Apparently the kits are really cheap too. ------------------ (===)
