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Do We Really Want These Nuts Handling Our Money???

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Jeff, Mar 14, 2001.

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  1. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    [​IMG]

    The stock market rises and falls. Nothing really changes that much. But, what never ceases to amaze me is that emotions determine how it goes. The words "worry" and "fears" are synonomous with Wall Street.

    Somehow we think that guys who are lucky to survive 10 years without major coronaries and ulsers are the key to investing.

    The total irony is that it really doesn't matter what the economy is doing. If a company lays off a few thousand people, their stocks go UP, not down. So what that they just put people on the street. They're a healthier company for it.

    And, here's nut number 2:

    [​IMG]

    This guy makes or breaks the stock market with every word that comes out of his mouth. Entire fortunes are made and lost dependant upon what he says. Unreal.

    Does anyone else find the entire system as comical as I do?

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    "Don't waste it. We're here."
     
    #1 Jeff, Mar 14, 2001
  2. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    OMG, is that a melanoma next to his ear! AGGGHHHHH!! Must sell biotech!

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    #2 Achebe, Mar 14, 2001
  3. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    That first photo isn't the NYSE, is it? I only ask because when I was there, they had a requirement that men had to wear coats and ties. While all those guys are wearing coats, there isn't a tie among them. (And if it is the NYSE, perhaps the lack of ties is what is causing all the problems in the market today. Casual days are ruining the country. [​IMG] )

    Personally, I don't blame Greenspan for the way the markets react to his musings and actions. It's the fault of the market players for taking every single word out of his mouth as being so important. While the Fed certainly has a ton of power over the economy, the markets often overreact to what he says (actually, the markets often overreact to any number of things).

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    The Anti-Bud Adams Page
     
    #3 mrpaige, Mar 14, 2001
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    The stock market is just a microcosm of the economy. The economy depends on the whims of the people in the same way -- there are just more people. If people start worrying about a weak economy, they stop spending money and the economy becomes weak. The same applies the other way.

    [on a sidenote: This is one reason I believe Clinton was extraordinarily important to our economy. For whatever reason, he made people believe things were going to get better, and thus consumer confidence rose, and not surprisingly, things did improve.]

    This is the same basic principle the stock market uses. If you worry about the market dropping and sell your stocks, you cause the market to drop.


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    #4 Major, Mar 14, 2001
  5. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Very astute as usual mrpaige. That's from the Chicago Exchange. That was the nuttiest looking pic I could find.

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    "Don't waste it. We're here."
     
    #5 Jeff, Mar 14, 2001
  6. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Member

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    I.... er...

    I'm baffled. What is the point? How should things be run? A command economy?

    Do you think you could do a better job than Greenspan...?

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    Pollution rules! Clean air sucks! I hope you're coughing, where ever you are!
     
    #6 BrianKagy, Mar 15, 2001
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    No BK, we were hoping you would run it. [​IMG]

    errr wait ... that would be a command economy.

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    #7 Space Ghost, Mar 15, 2001
  8. Major

    Major Member

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    The total irony is that it really doesn't matter what the economy is doing. If a company lays off a few thousand people, their stocks go UP, not down. So what that they just put people on the street. They're a healthier company for it.

    This isn't true. The stock will probably go up if they laid off unnecessary or overpaid people (thus improving efficiency). You're not suggesting that companies hire and pay people just for the hell of it, are you? [​IMG]


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    http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
     
    #8 Major, Mar 15, 2001
  9. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Yes. Yes I do. [​IMG]

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    "Don't waste it. We're here."
     
    #9 Jeff, Mar 15, 2001
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    You're kidding, right? I know numerous people who were victims of layoffs who were UNDERpaid. I also know many people left at the company who were forced to do 3 jobs for the same price.

    A good friend of mine got two jobs recently when the company phased out one. Now, he gets paid $40K for doing the jobs two employees previously were paid $70K for. Of course, he can't do both jobs well and his department realizes that so they just ignore the fact that portions of the job go undone for weeks and months at a time.

    They sure are running cheaper, but more efficient? Don't think so.

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    "Don't waste it. We're here."
     
    #10 Jeff, Mar 15, 2001
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    You're kidding, right? I know numerous people who were victims of layoffs who were UNDERpaid. I also know many people left at the company who were forced to do 3 jobs for the same price.

    Underpaid according to who, though? Is it possible the employees were being overpaid in the first place, and that those excess costs is why they laid people off (cutting salary is not an option 99% of the time). Maybe now the company is paying the true market value of the work being done?

    Companies having to too many employees due to inefficiencies or just for the hell of it hurts all the legitimate employees by reducing the amount of resources available.

    Would you be willing to pay more for all your daily needs just so that the companies supplying them could pay more people?

    Of course, he can't do both jobs well and his department realizes that so they just ignore the fact that portions of the job go undone for weeks and months at a time.

    They sure are running cheaper, but more efficient? Don't think so.

    If the company does fine without those jobs being done, then they were unnecessary in the first place. If it hurts the company in the long-run, the stock will drop and the company will pay the price.

    Thus, if the original employee was unnecessary, then the company will benefit by saving his salary. If he was important, then the company will suffer due to the fact that the work is not getting accomplished. What's bad about this?


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    http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
     
    #11 Major, Mar 15, 2001
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Jeff,

    Those are the exceptions. Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. In my dept., we could cut staff 33% and run perfectly fine, but yet we continue to hire.

    Here is the thinking; (which is sad)

    When a dept. puts in a budget, they want all they can get. Now it would be pointless for you to ask for more money than what you spent last year. Now the only way you can get that money is if you can justify the spending and overspend last years budget. So thus creating jobs for every little position happens and employees sit on their ass 80% of the day.

    Before I was transferred to our corporate office, the shop I worked with made their own money and was responsible for it. So in order to show a gain, they had to cut every little corner possible, resulting with underpaid and overworked people. I was doing at least 3 jobs while getting paid less than I do now. Now I do about 1/4 of a job and spend much of my time learning new things that does not pertain to my immediate job.

    Layoffs occur because uppermanagement begins to audit the departments and see how much waste is going on.
    Its just a vicious cycle, and you have to hope you get on the inside instead of getting thrown out. Or better yet, start your own business and be the creator of the crap!

    So if you work for a company and you have time to post a message every 30 minutes, you are hurting their stock!

    (ahem-cough-cough) Shanna [​IMG]
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    Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!

    [This message has been edited by Space Ghost (edited March 15, 2001).]
     
    #12 Space Ghost, Mar 15, 2001
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    (ahem-cough-cough) Shanna

    Hey, I own all the stock in my company, so I'm only hurting myself by posting. Besides, today was an official holiday due to the NCAA Tournament. [​IMG]


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    http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
     
    #13 Major, Mar 15, 2001
  14. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Why does everyone here seem to defend the company over the employee. Those people who were supposedly overpaid were getting $25K per year working 60 hours per week busting their asses taking care of your kids - they are called teachers.

    My friend works for Baylor College of Medicine. He handles two jobs for the price of one or he loses his job.

    I got out of my last job when my boss wanted to penalize me for going to school. Even though I had exactly the same responsibilities and worked only 3 hours less per week, he wanted to cut my per-hour pay by $2. He defended it saying it was best for "the comany". Gimme a break.

    At some point, we have to value "the people" over "the company".

    There is no doubt that some companies waste money on too many employees, but isn't the purpose of business to employ people so the economy will run? The next time Compaq wants to cut 5000 jobs, maybe they should consider cutting their CEO and Board of Director salaries and stock options first then making the decision.

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    The Walrus was Paul.
     
    #14 Jeff, Mar 15, 2001
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Why does everyone here seem to defend the company over the employee.

    Why do others always defend the employee over the company?

    Those people who were supposedly overpaid were getting $25K per year working 60 hours per week busting their asses taking care of your kids - they are called teachers.

    No, teachers don't fit the whole discussion. They don't work in a free-market economy because they are employed by the government. The government does not pay "market wages" because there's no market, and the people employing them are not looking to turn a profit.

    There is no doubt that some companies waste money on too many employees, but isn't the purpose of business to employ people so the economy will run?

    Not at all. The purpose of business is to make a profit for the people that have invested their money in the company. The fact that the company employs people which benefits the economy is the beautiful by-product of a free-market economy.

    The next time Compaq wants to cut 5000 jobs, maybe they should consider cutting their CEO and Board of Director salaries and stock options first then making the decision.

    If the owners of the company don't want to do this, then why should they? If they do, they'll fire the CEO through shareholder meetings.

    The job of management of a public company is to make a profit for the people who've invested their money in the company (and thus own the company). My question is why should I invest my money in a company that isn't trying to maximize my return? If I wanted to give away money to people, I could just do so through charity.


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    http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
     
    #15 Major, Mar 15, 2001
  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Jeff,

    I get paid to come in here and work 40 hours a week. Now if I don't like my working conditions, I can leave. Since one day I plan on owning my business, I want protection from bad employees.

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    Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
     
    #16 Space Ghost, Mar 16, 2001
  17. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Why do others always defend the employee over the company?

    Because companies don't need defending. They have the money and resources to defend themselves.

    No, teachers don't fit the whole discussion. They don't work in a free-market economy because they are employed by the government. The government does not pay "market wages" because there's no market, and the people employing them are not looking to turn a profit.

    Wrong again. These were teachers in a private college - no government funding.

    I am not completely anti-big business, but let's face it. The majority of big businesses produce things nobody really needs. They thrive on the fact that they have all the power and employees have very little. At one point in our country, companies employed children 18 hours per day in sweat shops.

    Recently, there was a story of a poultry processing plant that forced its employees to vote not to allow a union into its shop. The company state that it wasn't necessary because they took care of their employees. It turns out that some employees on the product line had to urinate on themselves because managers didn't give breaks for the entire 8 hour work day.

    Employees are afraid to leave because it is a small town and this plant is the only source of employment.

    I find if VERY hard to be sympathetic with businesses when employees are routinely treated so poorly.

    You can make the argument all day that "employees probably deserve it" and I can continue to point out companies like Nike that employee sweat shop labor in Asia to make over-priced shoes in America.

    Besides, even though I own my own business, I am NOT a company. I AM a person. And, this person is out of this argument. It is too ridiculous.


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    The Walrus was Paul.
     
    #17 Jeff, Mar 16, 2001
  18. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    I want y'all to meet my financial team. Their firm is known as Dewey, Soakum & Howe. These are the guys that handle my money. The return is sometimes up & sometimes down, a bit of a roller coaster...just like the stock market. But at least I get free drinks. Let me know if you would like me to introduce you to my financial team. Adios...rmt

    [​IMG]

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    "Blues is a Healer"
    --John Lee Hooker
     
    #18 RocketMan Tex, Mar 16, 2001
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    Wrong again. These were teachers in a private college - no government funding.

    OK, then there's a mini-market there. However, it's still a government industry and the wage market is controlled by the government. If public institutions pay $30k a year, that's the "base market price" of professors, regardless of what it should be. Private schools are going to pay what's necessary to acquire the teachers of the quality they need. The higher that quality, the more they'll pay (and charge the students). There's still no true market in place due to the government effect, but there's a sort-of market effect. How would you determine how much a teacher "should" make, if you were running the place?

    And, this person is out of this argument. It is too ridiculous.

    Yes, it is too ridiculous, because you're trying to use an example of dangerous and psychotic (and illegal) work conditions to criticize all (or most) big business, and that's just ridiculous.

    Of course there are out-of-whack working conditions -- but those are already illegal. How does that, in any way, relate to the right of a company to hire and fire people as they feel necessary, or a company's right to try to turn a profit?

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    http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
     
    #19 Major, Mar 16, 2001
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