What was Ralph Sampson when he played with Hakeem? A center. What is Hakeem? A center. Wow, how can that be - if two centers play on the same team, doesn't one become magically transformed into a pf for the rest of their career? Only if your name is Tim Duncun, but not if your Hakeem. Too Bad Hakeem didn't decide to pretend to be a pf, he could have been the greatest PF ever.
And what is Nesterovic? And Mohammed? And how much of Hakeem's career did he play with Sampson? And for the brief time that he Hakeem did play with Sampson what was he listed as. And what starter post-Sampson that Hakeem played with remotely resembled more of a center than Hakeem? And what qualities or skills did McHale psosses that qualify him more as a PF than Duncan?
You guys are seriously underrating Shaq as a defender. Shaquille over the course of his career has been a better defender than Duncan in my opinion. Shaq has slowed down through the years. But if you remember back to the 1999 playoffs against game 1. He was able to track down Cuttino Mobley for the block to win the game as time expired. It wasn't until about the 2002-2003 season where Shaq became a moderate liability on the pick and roll. Really, what center has ever been able to go off against Shaq in his career except for Olajuwon? I'd be hard press to come up with more than a handful a games that a center really dominated him on the offensive end. Shaq was a very tough guy to score against in his prime and he does have substantially better shot blocking numbers than Duncan in his career. Also, all of Duncan's numbers in the 1999 Finals should be severely discounted. Ewing blew his achilles in the conference and Duncan was able to go off against a broken down, 6'5" Larry Johnson and Marcus Camby (he wasn't much of a player back then). At the end of the day, I will be majorly pissed if pundits call Tim Duncan a better player than Hakeem Olajuwon 2o years from now. That's a complete joke! I caught the tail end of the 1994, game 6 finals on NBA TV today where Hakeem calming sank two free throws to put the Rockets up 4 with 39 seconds left. Hakeem has always been one of the best clutch players in NBA history, routinely shooting a great % in the clutch. Even Shaq really doesn't shrink at the line in crunch time. Dare I say, I think he shoots a better % in crunch time than he does through out the course of the game. Where as Duncan, really does shrink at the line in the clutch.
On any decent team with a power forward....Duncun would refuse to play center because his legacy would be knocked down a bit, so they would trade for a mediocre center and let Duncun play PF. Lets think about this one: Duncan came into the league and went to a team that had a center. You might have heard of him. Anyhow, they basically had a twin towers going (much like how Hakeem played PF to Sampson's center back in the 80s) and within what...2 years?...they were hoisting up the Larry O'Brien. And then 4 years later with Duncan at the 4 and Robinson at the 5, they hoisted another trophy up. When Robinson retired, they might have thought "Hmm...maybe we can bring in someone that gives us what Robinson gave us and have him play center. Duncan can still play the 4 spot". I would think that's a smart idea since what Robinson gave them from 1999-2003 could have been replaced. That's where Rasho came in. Sure Rasho had Robinson's shooting touch and could block shots, but he wasn't as mobile as Robinson. Flash forward to now... They traded for Nazr and now they have virtually the same front court as they did when they won the 2 championships. Your reasoning is because Duncan didn't want to "taint" his legacy by playing center. How bout sitting back and think for a moment: maybe he plays PF because he knows that, with a good enough center like Nazr (like how Robinson was good enough), he can win more championships like that? You make it seem like Duncan only cares about his legacy. Well his legacy is getting longer by the minute with every championship his team wins. Why didn't the Spurs do what the Rockets did with Hakeem and slide Duncan over to the center position and go get them a power forward? The Spurs actually did try to get a PF but Malone apparently thought playing for the Lakers would have been an easier way to the ring. And trying to get a PF to replace Duncan's numbers at the same position is slightly harder than trying to get a C that could replace Robinson's 15/10 (in 1999) and 9/8 (in 2002/2003) isn't it? Bottom line: If getting an above average center to play alongside Duncan is all that was needed to win a championship, wouldn't you do it? In Hakeem's case, when Sampson retired, we weren't that fortunate to have had 2 rings and a team full of good players to try and keep Dream at the 4 spot. Ever since Duncan was drafted by the Spurs, have they ever had a losing record? Have they ever even have a season where they were .500? So why are you going to mess with success by moving Duncan to the center position when he's comfortable and establishing himself as a power forward? Furthermore, why are you going to move him to the center position when all you need is a center that can defend and rebound alongside Duncan?
I think this is a on target point. If you say TD is the best PF ever, it is a diluted argument. Hakeem was "more forward" like than Duncan. He could do everything Duncan could do and more, he had a quicker first step, could guard perimeter players much better, etc. I think it is a lot more informative to compare TD to the best finese bigmen (etc., Hakeem, Kareem, McHale), than simply the players who officially play PF. I mean what position is he playing now in crunch time when SA has to put their best team on the floor, the answer if C of course. Thanks Da Man, I have been bringing this up a lot myself. People forget the defense impact Shaq had from when he went into the league until about 2003 because the remember the current Shaq. There are not too many players with multiple seasons with 3+ blocks and 13+ rebounds, Shaq is one.
Duncan logs more minutes at center than he does at power forward, especially in the playoffs. He is and has never been a true power forward; he's basically a combo 4/5.
Just wanted to say: the Spurs organization/team makeup/management is something to be admired and emulated. The Spurs will win at least 3-4 more rings in the next 5 years. They are by FAR the best in the West. All I can say is: the Rockets have a LOT of work to do.
Replacing horry and bowen who are both in their mid 30's and bound to decline will not be easy and duncan looks like he's peaked already. They will not win 3-4 more titles. maybe 1 more.
Or instead of praying for a miracle so that the "other" team has bad luck, let's instead pray that Yao and T-Mac get their **** together and have the character and greatness to carry us to the promised land, so that we EARN it, instead of just hoping to luck out. If nothing else, I am happy for Horry and...Mike Wilks
OMG, that means Glen Robinson got a ring. I'd rather have Charles Manson or Sadaam Husein get a ring before that dude.
All the credit goes to the Spurs. It's a little tough to deal with the fact they have more titles than the Rockets, but they deserve to be on top because of what they have done in the draft getting Parker and Ginobili. The second reason they deserve to be on top is because of Tim Duncan. Hakeem the dream is a better overall skilled player than Tim, but Tim Duncan is way better than Hakeem in a MAJOR category, Maximizing his potential. Hakeem went through a period from 89-92 where I felt he underachieved. Then again, maybe it was the Rockets fault for not putting quality players around the Dream in this time period. In 92-93, Hakeem figured it all out. With Tim Duncan, he figured it out basically from the start. And as a result, Duncan has more rings than Hakeem. The Spurs are the standard of excellence now for NBA basketball in Texas, and if the Rockets want to get up to the Spurs level, then they need to surround Yao and McGrady with upgraded role players instead of marginal players like Sura and Wesley. They are nice players, but not game changers. Hakeem had Horry, Cassell, Elie, and even Maxwell as quality role players. What will Yao and McGrady get? What they have now is nowhere close to championship talent.
With all due respect to Duncan, that has to be the worst performance by a finals MVP in history... ...now, about this whole "power forward vs. center" thing...Everybody knows that the only reason Duncan has been listed as a "power forward" is because the NBA wanted both him and Shaq to start in the all star game all these years. Now that Shaq is in the East, they'll want both him and Yao starting...
"God, I still can't believe they gave the MVP to me, teehee...feels like I got away with something, just like that asterisk championship"
"Okay,now I'm feeling a bit self conscious hoisting these 2 bad boys up. considering my lousy series. Let's get this standard gratuitous pose over, I feel like Shaq, except he doesn't have an asterisk ring."
