The fact that he throated the last 10 minutes with turnovers, missed shots, and the worst free throw shooting I have ever seen is not covered up by a win. Everyone in the country knows he choked worse than Goosen on Sunday.
He choked in the 4th quarter obviously, but you have done absolutely nothing to disprove StupidMoniker's statement which you are disagreeing with.
Forget about Dream, Karl Malone never choked as badly as Duncan did last night. It was just embarassing to watch. If he wins the MVP, he sure as hell doesn't deserve it and he's been undressed here in the Finals. Spurs are winning because of Ginobili and Horry mainly. Duncan needed 24 shots to get his 26 last night and is shooting an Allen Iversonesque FG% this series. He's been just bad.
Malone choked year after year at the most important games. You can't say that about Duncan. He did deliver in previous championship runs. To be fair to Duncan. He hasn't shot well but he did grab 19 rebounds, 8 offensive, and 2 blocks, on 2 bumped ankles. It's obvious that he lost his confidence at the FT line. Duncan is still one of the best players in the league even when he doesn't shoot well. He doesn't "happen to have a superior supporting cast." He makes his teammates better. But I agree that he is not comparable to Hakeem's legacy because Hakeem would never lose confidence at the line.
Did people expect Duncan to shoot 50% on two bum ankles against one of the best defensive teams of this generation? Not many players are exactly lighting it up in this series. As I said earlier in this thread, 20 ppg will be enough from him for his team to win the series, and it's looking like that is going to happen. Yes, Horry bailed him out with his incredible performance, but he also bailed out Shaq (who missed a layup to win the game) in game 6 of the WCF in 2002. That's just what Horry does.
Which is why Shaq's legacy will forever be tainted as well. Let's face it. Any big man who has one bad game will forever be known as a cream puff and rightfully so.
I am pretty sure you didn't watch Malone play a lot. Malone also turned over a lot, just like everybody else who happens to No.1 option of the team offense.
Yes, but Tim didn't just miss a layup to win the game. He also went 1 of 7 from the FT line in the 4th Q of the pivotal Game 5. He also had that unforced turnover in OT. This postseason, he's also been stuffed by Stoudemire on a potential game winner and missed a 5 foot hook over Patapenko in Seattle. He's been about as clutch as Jeff Bagwell or Craig Biggio in the playoffs. DOn't give me this bum ankle crap. His ankles weren't so bum against a soft Suns D last series when he was socring 28 and shooting 53% were they? It's not the ankles, it's the tough defense and his inability to man up. And Shaq dominated in the 02 series you mention. He was awesome, the one missed layup not withstanding. Duncan was very good in Games 1 and 2, but awful awful afterwards. Look at Shaq's #'s last yr vs. DET. He still managed to shoot well and score close to 30 a game. Duncan aint no shaq.
Shaq's legacy won't be tainted. He's clearly one of the top 10-15 players ever. Duncan is just not at that level. THat much is becoming more and more apparent. He's not at the level of a Hakeem or MJ or Shaquille. He relies much moreso on the success of his supporting cast to win his rings than hakeem and shaq. Could you imagine Hakeem going 1 of 7 from the FT line in the 4th Q of a Game 5 of the NBA finals or dare i say even oneal choking that badly? Choking is an unadmirable quality and you'll always lose points on your legacy when you have just a huge choke like DUncan did last night.
Wow. I didn't know one game can ruin your entire legacy. How many rebounds did Shaq average against Detroit?
No, there's not an excuse for Duncan missing free throws last night. He choked. That said, there also needs to be more talk about the amazing job he's doing this postseason playing on two moderately to badly sprained ankles. He hasn't been close to 100 percent in this entire run and he's still out there every game giving everything he has, while another big man is skipping games with a thigh bruise. His lateral movement has been compromised this postseason and it definitely contributed to Stoudemire being able to beat him off the dribble in that Phoenix series. But, because he doesn't whine about it and make a big deal of his injuries like most players do, the announcers have all but forgotten about it. Like I said, it doesn't excuse him for missing free throws and an easy putback last night. But while we're criticizing his clutch play, we also need to look at his overall numbers and give him a little praise for an excellent postseason considering he isn't close to his usual self physically.
Shaq's legacy won't be tainted. He's clearly one of the top 10-15 players ever. Duncan is just not at that level. THat much is becoming more and more apparent. He's not at the level of a Hakeem or MJ or Shaquille. He relies much moreso on the success of his supporting cast to win his rings than hakeem and shaq. Duncan is a POWER FOWARD. Who here has compared him to Dream, Shaq or MJ? No one has argued that he'll be the best ever. And last I checked: Duncan: 1999 NBA Finals Game 1: 33 points 16 rebounds Game 2: 25 points 15 rebounds 4 blocks Game 3: 20 points 12 rebounds Game 4: 28 points 18 rebounds 3 blocks Game 5: 31 points 9 rebounds 2003 NBA Finals Game 1: 32 points 20 rebounds 7 blocks Game 2: 19 points 12 rebounds 3 blocks Game 3: 21 points 16 rebounds 3 blocks Game 4: 23 points 17 rebounds 7 blocks Game 5: 29 points 17 rebounds 4 blocks I'll agree with everyone (ain't hard to see why i wouldn't) that he choked big time in the 4th quarter and hasn't been playing like the old Duncan we've seen in Finals past but there are reasons for that. As for depending on his supporting cast, he's been doing that more this year because his teammates are better period. Manu and Parker have all become better and more reliable players. He has basically a Robinson-during-the-championship-years clone in Nazr Mohammad right now. And of course he has Horry. I doubt he'll have the same choking performance in game 6 though. Even before that collapse, the man had 26 points and 19 rebounds...that's better than the Wallace boys' numbers COMBINED. And of course Shaq's legacy won't be tainted. No one remembers what mistakes you made if you win it all. That goes for him and everyone else. Could you imagine Hakeem going 1 of 7 from the FT line in the 4th Q of a Game 5 of the NBA finals or dare i say even oneal choking that badly? Choking is an unadmirable quality and you'll always lose points on your legacy when you have just a huge choke like DUncan did last night. To be fair, O'neal wouldn't even be on the floor in crucial moments in the finals because he's that much of a liability. Again, if Duncan comes back on Tuesday and puts up 30/17 and the spurs cruise to a win, Game 5 wouldn't be much of a tarnish at all. It's about results: if the Spurs win, who cares of Duncan choked? they won the championship. As for worse choke jobs, have you ever seen Malone play in the playoffs?
Popovich has said that with Duncan's ankles he's nowhere close to his MVP level and won't be until next season. Lateral movement and explosion are both significantly diminished in Pop's words. Still it looks like it's likely going to be enough to get the Spurs another title.
Yeah, don't give Amare any credit for his incredible defensive play or anything. Refresh my memory; who hit the series clinching shot against Seattle? Who got a stat-line of 20-20-10-8 to clinch his second title? This Duncan guy sure wins a lot of series and rings for being such a choker. How do you know that his ankles weren't giving him trouble? From watching the entire playoffs, Duncan doesn't have his usual (admittedly mediocre) lift. He's been short on tons of shots throughout the playoffs that are normally money in the bank. His pet moves are being swatted away left and right. Yeah, I'm sure spraining his ankles four times in a season have nothing to do with that. And yet he won the game, and will win finals mvp for the third time. He hasn't looked very good doing it, but why argue with results? 26 and 19, more than the combined efforts of both Wallaces. The Nets and Knicks were also very good defensive teams, and Duncan made Kmart, one of the league's best post defenders, shed tears. JVG probably still loses sleep to this day for not doubling Duncan in '99. I'll take that inability to man up on my team any day. And Shaq is no Duncan on defense. I don't think I've ever seen him switch onto a guard like Duncan does consistently. If Duncan is no Shaq, why don't we compare their averages against the same Detroit team this year. Duncan: 19.6 ppg, 14.6 rpg. Shaq: 20.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg. Shaq's inability to close down the paint played a key role in their downfall. Or are you going to excuse Shaq for playing hurt while denying Duncan the same leniency?
You mean the best center pretending to be a power forward ever...he really should get a lifetime oscar...clearly you find it a convincing role.
Is it reasonable for people to expect Duncan to shoot better than 20% at the FT line with the most important game on line, on two bum ankles? If he were that weak and could not have been able to shoot FTs, he should not have played because he were hurting his team.
I'm sure the Spurs have tons of guys on the bench that can get them 26 and 19. I don't know why Duncan forced Pops to play him and held back Tony Massenburg and Rasho Nesterovich.
okay you're the same guy that believes that Dirk Nowitzki is a small forward. What's more believable? That Duncan is a Power Forward or that Dirk is a Small Forward?
What position would Dirk play if he were on San Antonio? Could it be.....SMALL FORWARD? On any other team that didn't have a freakish void in the middle, Dirk would play SF. Why is a lanky 7 footer playing SF you say? Because there's nothing "power" in Dirk's foward game. He shoots .463 from the field! On any decent team with a power forward....Duncun would refuse to play center because his legacy would be knocked down a bit, so they would trade for a mediocre center and let Duncun play PF. I mean really, if you want to rank Duncun amongst Power Forwards, just think about this, if you put Duncun with any of the great power forwards...guess what! Duncun would have to play center!!! Whoa...what a shocker....could it be that Duncun is really a center?
So NewYorker if Duncan was really a center what exactly was David Robinson the first six years of Duncan's eight year career?
