Cabbage, I know you didn't address DaDakota specifically, but keep in mind his original post was "Religion - PFFFT....Something written by man to control the ignorant masses. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Think for yourselves people, don't allow some dusty manuscript written by someone calling themselves the messiah to guide your lives. God is in all of us, you don't need someone who has an alterior motive telling you how to live. Religion, and particularly the Muslim faith is a joke." I don't agree with him completely, but agree on some aspects of this opinion. As such, it in many ways wouldn't matter to me whether or not a sub-group, even a small one, isn't representative of the whole. They are still representative of the part. I'm not saying everything that has the potential to be bad for someone is bad...but there should be no reason why a person can't believe what he believes as an individual, not part of a group. I am making no sense, but suffice it to say, though he would disagree, someone like MadMax, to me, isn't a Christian...because the Christianity I know is one that encompasses a lot of his beliefs but also ecompass other beliefs. To me he's just a guy who has his own unique set of beliefs...
I agree with that, but if the Bush Is Hitler folks are going to go bonkers every time an American so much as farts in the general direction of a Muslim terrorist, then perhaps it's time for some tit for tat cut and paste jobs.
No, just informed. I am not defending what those women did, that was wrong and barbaric to say the least.
Until rather recently (say 1950s?), people married VERY young, that was the cultural norm, not pedophilia. Today's standards in our country weren't standard back then, in fact, they aren't even accepted standards everywhere in the world today. Can you deny that? In fact, many cultures in Africa TODAY still practice that. The norm back then was that once a girl and a boy reached maturity (physically speaking) they were able to marry. As for the incest and rape, what a bunch of bologne! That shows how much you really know, if you will believe a bunch of made up crap from anti-Muslim sites . So that isn't even worth a reply. As for being a "liar" and a "thief", if you know Islamic history, you would have known that even BEFORE he ever became a chosen messenger of God (at the age of 40), he was known among ALL the tribes of Quraysh as "al-ameen", meaning "the trusted one". He was being sent to engage in trade by the wealthy in Mecca because they trusted him, and that became a widespread reputation that he gained from his dealings with the people around him. How did he acquire his wealth? He did so as a trader and later on inherited wealth from his first wife, Khadija (she proposed to him, btw). Still, he spent her fortune towards the cause of Islam, not for his own wealth or tried to go and build castles and acquired all the jewelry in the world for himself or his kids. He died a poor man without much left for his family, which is something a "pirate" and a "thief" wouldn't do. As for the "terrorist" or "warmonger" accusation, the fact is that the Muslims in Mecca were oppressed and verbally/physically assaulted by the tribes there simply for believing in God. They were persecuted in the worst manner possible, which FORCED them to migrate to Medina, where the first Muslim base was established. Once there, they were attacked by the tribes of Quraysh over and over again, and the Muslims in Medina successfully thwarted their attacks one time after the other. Even after the wars, the Quraysh tribes broke their promises/contracts with the Medina Muslims and refused to let them into Mecca to perform their religious duties, the hajj (pilgrimage). As a consequence, the Muslims invaded Mecca, and conquered it. Look, DD, I understand that you despise Islam and everything that has to do with it, which is your right. However, if you think you can take a lunatic anti-Muslim author to prove your point, then you must be delusional, beyond a doubt. The least you could do is do your own research and come up with your own conclusions, not buy what someone else says, especially since you seem to have an affinity for sources that only SUPPORT your own views, and not contradict them. But hey, you have your view of Islam, I have mine, that is why you are not a Muslim, and I am, and so are a fourth of this world's population, and the religion is ever expanding to every corner of the world, strangely enough without a sword! ( http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32islam_expanding_religion.html ) If you would like me to link for you websites that claim similar repulsive things about Christianity and Judaism, let me know. But I am not delusional enough to believe that crap, and you won't find a Muslim ever claiming that Moses or Jesus were "terrorists", commited "incest", or "raped" anyone. But hey, by all means, carry on your crusade. Islam is a religious ideology, one that doesn't exist in a vacuum, one that evolved with local cultures/traditions, which in turn shaped Muslims in the way they behaved and still behave. If it's an ideology you despise, fine, by all means! Others, like myself, and millions of your fellow Americans subscribe to this religion and believe in it, if you don't agree with them, again, that is your right. But more and more people are embracing this religion, and to call it a "disease" or a "mental disorder" ONLY goes to support, once again, what I said before about the secularists and how intolerant they are of other views. Islam is here to stay, has been around forever, only getting stronger and stronger, and will never succumb to the trash being propogated about it. Good luck turning back the tide, others have tried and failed, the world will sooner or later come to accept that reality. I don't think I am compelled to explain to you Islam or why I am a Muslim. So just deal with it! You seem rock-solid on your personal views, so good luck with that!
good post. DD that link is silly....there is NO reference to any documentation….the author Craig Winn just mentions that he has studied the religion for two years(oh that shows that he has researched the religion thoroughly. ) Any educated person would not base their views on a prophet based on that article. It’s ludicrous to even post such garbage…Only some dumb fool would fall for an article like that. Though I forget that you’re the idiot that thinks Muslims worship a stone….after you were provided some evidence on the contrary you still ignorantly continued to post garbage on the same topic……go to Iraq and kill some muslims…release the hate
LOL! I remember that one, he was provided proof to the contrary, and he still kept babbling on as to how Muslims "worship" a stone! Honestly, I think DD and others on this board are just doing this stuff deliberately to provoke a response. I mean, look at how many posts DD has compiled! So he must be a computer geek who enjoys getting on people's nerves. He does that stuff on purpose, I think we feed him when we respond at all to anything he posts.
hey I've done that many times too ... Though there is a difference when you start disrespecting a religion...i might have tried to play devil's advocate in my posts ....though i would never disrespect anyone's faith...especially with outlandish name calling ….cause that is a very unclassy thing to do…though i guess that's Dakota for you
DaDa, on a totally different note, do you hire Muslims for your company? If a qualified Muslim was to apply to work for you, would you turn him/her away because he/she was a Muslim? It is a serious question and I would appreciate a serious and sincere answer.
I chuckled as I skimmed through the link you provided. I was hoping for a good debate here. I've combed through just about all of the written attacks on Muhammad over the years. Perhaps a reference to "The Satanic Verses" or perhaps the beheadings of the Banu Qurayza? Nah. Instead I found a site with almost laughable claims with no source whatsoever. The site was juvenile. If you're going to make false attacks on Muhamamd, atleast put forth some of the better known arguments, not this garbage. For what it's worth, Muhammad is the only major religious figure in world history who's life is thoroughly documented, so any of these bogus claims are easily refuted by factual evidence. And yes, I am referring to the same Muhammad who married Ayesha the 9 year old girl. Nice how we take things out of context - this was the norm during the time; not even Muhammad's non Muslim contemporaries saw shame in this. Unrestrained sexual pervert? You would think that an unrestrained sexual pervert would take more than one virgin wife (the aforementioned Ayesha) All of his other wives were either widows or wed to form alliances. I'd also assume an unrestrained sexual pervert WOULDN't outlaw fornication and adultery. As far as the other charges made in that little quote - LOL. DaDa - It's your prerogative to hate Islam, and damn, you've taken every chance you've gotten, but atleast bring some arguments with some semblance of credibility.
I don't hate Muslims, nor Christians, I don't hate anyone. I just think religion is silly, and people who take text written by man to be the word of god are not thinking straight. Religion has always been about power and control, always has always will be....well most religions, and it is those that I find repulsive. The Muslim religion is simply the theme of this thread. Do I believe that Muslims are evil...hell no, but it is a vehicle or instrument most used today to brain wash otherwise good people to do bad things. Yes, Jim Jones was a Christian, as was David Koresh, and they used Christianity to do the same thing. I just can not fathom how people can blindly follow some old written text without considering the context in which it was written, and the context of the times it was written in.... I don't care what religion you follow, I don't care as long as you are not pushing it off on someone else. Each person has a right to believe what they want, and I choose to believe that religion is silly. Do I believe in God, emphatically YES ! But, I do not believe that man has even come close to defining who or what God is, and especially religion. I do think the Muslim religion is silly, and that Muhammed was NOT a good guy, at least Jesus was a peaceful man, Muhammed was not. However, I think both of them are equal in guessing what God is or isn't. Heck in today's society we call people that claim to be inspired by God "freaks" but back then people in their destitute state were willing to grasp on to anything that made them feel like their life would be better, even if it meant dying to get there. Sorry for the rant, and it is simply my opinion. Carry on ! DD PS. I would of course hire anyone qualified regardless of religious beliefs.
Obviously I do not agree with your view of Islam or religion. However, I certainly do agree that religion is used to drive good people to do evil things. People of all religions do that and such people definitely contribute to justifying your point of view. While I do not agree with your point of view, I certainly do recognize your right to hold your view. If that is how you feel, then more power to you. By the way, thank you for answering my question. Honestly, I was just curious to know.
DaDakota - That's respectable, if it's your opinion. It just seems through your posts in this forum that you are badly mistaken about the religion as you have singled it out with venomous, completely inaccurate attacks in numerous posts. It's your opinion, but for the sake of discussion, and an already pretty good thread, allow me - I usually don't partake in political or religious discourse in this forum because I think doing so is futile. There's not much I can do to defend the Muslims of today - you can all too well see their plight. Their leaders are corrupt, many themselves are backward, and their motives are politically driven. Sadly, I think that's where the majority of the confusion stems. The West views the political anger fueled (pun intended) from the Middle East as having a religious pretext, when this is purely political. It doesn't help matters when a few crackpot leaders are calling for "jihad" on the Great Satan. I'll turn the other cheek when modern day Muslims are criticized, because there's not much really I can do to change a person's perception. But the second a person slanders Muhammad or the true form of Islam, I take serious offense, because they are subjects I have studied for some years now. And there is complete, documented, authentic evidence, accepted by all Orientalists, to back my claims. As for the two points in your post: I've seen you make this statement and many like it, but I haven't really heard a reasonable explanation as to how the Qur'an could possibly NOT be the word of God. Muhammad was an illiterate man. The Quran was not written in the colloquial Arabic but rather a form known as fusha. Furthermore, there are an abundance of anecdotes in the classical texts to support that the language of the Qu'ran was regarded by the listener as entrancing. Poetry was regarded as the greatest art during Pre-Islamic Arabia, and it was widely regarded that this Qu'ran could not have been produced by any poet. There are authentic accounts that the non-Muslims during pilgrimage to Mecca would stuff their ears with cotton so as to not hear this "magician", Muhammad. It is obvious that Muhammad did not write the Quran - he was illiterate and had absolutely zero prior knowledge of the Biblical texts. There are Orientalist claims that Muhammad befriended a Christian monk and it was through him that he learned the secrets of the Bible. This also is impossible as the Quran contains a vast array of scientific explanations which could not have been known to man during that era of 500 A.D. I can expound on these if asked. As far as the similarities to Christianity, the answer simply is that Muslims revere Jesus and the other religious figures of the Bible in esteem as Prophets of God. There is finally the Middle Ages depiction of a posessed Muhammad with a bird on his shoulder who whispered the words of the Quran into his ear - obviously this is ridiculous and something anyone would find utterly insulting as well as countless other attacks on Muhammad - Muhammad as "Mahound", a sort of boogeyman to scare young children to sleep, or the depiction of Muhammad in the darkest depths of Hell in Dante's Inferno... Why do you think Muhammad was not a good guy? Because he wasn't peaceful? The sword was the basic unit of survival in pre-Islamic Arabia. How exactly was Muhammad not peaceful? Because he participated in wars? The Muslims would have been annihilated had they not defended themselves, and rather fled from Mecca to Abysinnia and Medinah to seek refuge. The Pre-Islamic Arabs were in a state of constant warfare before the advent of Islam. "Asabiyah" was the tribal, chivalristic code of life. It was a vicious cycle. One tribe plunders another or kils their man, and the other obviously retaliates. Infanticide was common. The Arabs were stuck in darkness. It was not until Muhammad came and united the Arabian peninsula under the common ideology of belief in one God that they were lifted from this intellectual, social, and moral state of bankruptcy and thrust into advancement as a civilzation.
You don't need to expound on it, a fellow Muslim already has, just read the contents of this website, it discusses the scientific facts contained in the Koran: http://members.aol.com/silence004/
Last time me and DD went at it, it ended up like this, he curses my prophet, i curse his mom, we both apologize, and jeff closes the thread.
I don't curse anyone...... Cabbage, Interesting read but what are the sources for that information? Who said that Muhammed couldn't write? Please do not use the Quran as a source as that is the issue, whether or not the Quran or Bible are accurate or just stories passed down and exaggerated through the ages. DD
