Man, if we get Ron Artest, and he is able to clean up his act and act like a an adult/professional....we would be damn good, we would definetly make the jump to the next level.
Hillboy, What Artest did will probably have a positive impact on the game. He held the fan responsible for what he did. Had he stayed on the table and made no effort to respond, then the league would not have done a thing about these fans. This was a real life example that will likely have a positive impact in the long run if the NBA treats the situation well. Ron Artest was in no way an angel, but he was acting as an average player would. Fans all over have been stepping over their boundries and getting too involved in the game. This beer throwing thing should not be acceptable behavior. Ron Artest was dealt with, the fans were dealt with and now both players and fans have been told how to act at a game. You can look at Artest and see a madman or you can see him as someone who made a sacrifice to make the game better. He gave up basketball for almost a year, he gave up his salary, he has given up his reputation and whether he meant to or not, he might have helped. No one was truly hurt (couple of minor injuries) and the situation eventually was solved. So why try to look for the worst in the situation? The result of that altercation does not have to be completely negative and deserving of a lifetime label of violence. Detroit fans are good fans for the most part, but one beer tosser changed the entire situation and now they look 'violent'. Ron Artest was not 'violent' until the beer was tossed. If you treat him like a criminal he will act like a criminal. If we treat him like a man then he will have the opportunity to shake that label just like the Detroit fans have.
Due to personality of Yao and T Mac,I think Rockets need the guy to incent the team's agressness,toughness just like what Amire did this season.
I'm an Artest fan, but you're getting a little too carried away here. What he did basically made him a pioneer in terms of ugliness in sports. He crossed the line and struck a fan (...or two). There was no precedence for that so Stern had to react sharply. Most likely, the new rules & conduct codes will prevent incidents along these lines from occuring again---so in that regard I can can kind of see your point. But let's not be too generous here, I don't think Ron Artest will be up for any kind of humanitarian award anytime in the near future.
When has he gotten the chance after the fight? We don't know how his attitude will be when he gets back, but he is a good enough player to take that chance on. No one knew how Spree was going to behave when he got back, but he ended up taking the NYK to the finals 2 seasons later. No one knew if Sheed was going to behave in Det and he helped win them the championship. Look at Rodman and his antics. You never know but you don't pass up a great player because you're not sure he can change his behavior. Plenty of players have. Exactly. Artest has to change his behavior if he wants to stay in the league and "get paid" (which I don't see how you came up with this). He has to know that his fines and punishments will continue to grow more and more strict if he misbehaves. I'm sure he knows he has got to behave to stay.
Come to think of it, this is not the first fight that a player has had with a fan and not the first time a player has gone into the stands either. This is the most recent fight with a fan and it sticks out in our minds because the media played it over and over and over. Charles Barkley and Vernon Maxwell had fights with fans too, but replays of these events were not played 10 times each on every news station in the United States. This might have been the first brawl, but not the first fight. O'neal and Jackson fought too. Artest got the shortest end of the stick and ended up with the worst wrap out of everyone. Maybe he did not show enough remorse? So what. Maybe he thought he was right and stood up for what he believed in. Fans shouldn't throw beers at players. He didn't start the fight, he just reacted. How many fights are started in bars and outside stadiums that never get the press coverage? Does the fact that a news station over plays a story make it any more servere of an act? No. But the NBA has treated it as such. Ron Artest is not deserving of a humanitarian award for what he did, but he also doesn't deserve a lifetime violent label either. He has served his time, so if his punishment was deemed sufficient, then it's probably time to let it go and move on. And... we're probably shouting in agreement, aren't we?
If Ron Artest is so nuts... how are you guys defending Steven Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal for what they did that night in Detroit as well? I'm sure it will be said that their situation was more "self defense" than Artest's... but they threw the same punches against the same smaller fans... and they were provoked to (just like Ron). Hillboy... I'd like the psychological profile for those players, and whether or not they are going to change, or have changed already. Seriously... I said it before, and I'll say it again... none of you here are qualified to speak on behalf of any player's (especially Ron's) "psyche", and make unequivocal statements based only on your own past life experiences (which is not like Ron's... sorry), or based on past NBA players' situations (I like it how you compare him to the problem childs in Wiggins, Lloyd and Lucas... but you don't compare him to the rehabilitated problem-childs in Spreewell and Wallace... way to see both sides of the argument. ). If you don't want him on this team... that's fine... its all you had to say. But, if you're going to come up w/ these bold statments about how he'll never change, and how he hasn't shown that he wants to change... w/out even really knowing what he's doing right now, or having never actually talked to him... you're not going to get much respect from any of the posters here (also... ps... don't mess w/ andy).
Ah, I see you know Artest and myself personally. You know that Artest doesn't want to change and you know that I overlook such actions and write them off as being trivial. The fact of the mattter is that no one can answer any of these questions except Artest and no one can find out if he's capable of it until someone gives him a chance. My opinion is that Indiana isn't the place for him to try. Jackson running into the stands and throwing punches right behind Ron isn't what he needed or what anyone in that situation needed to try and stop the mayhem before it escalated to what we all saw on the news.
Fair enough. I don't dismiss your viewpoint, particularly after you articulated it in your follow up post. I just took issue with you making a statement that looked like pure assumption based on facts not in evidence. Personally, I am not sure whether Artest can get his act together, I just believe that he should have a chance at redemption, be it with Indy, Houston, or whoever. As I said before, Sprewell did some pretty crazy s*** before he finally got his head on straight, but with maturity he has been a good player who wasn't a cancer until he decided he couldn't feed his family on $14 million per year. Again, I only took issue with what I perceived as a wild, unfounded declaration. I appreciated your clarification and expansion on the issue. I disagree to an extent and will again use Sprewell as my supporting argument. He was able to mature and thrive after being suspended for a year and, oddly enough, JVG was the coach who brought him around. I am not saying that JVG can, without a doubt, whip Artest into prime mental condition, but I do believe that if any coach in the league can do it, JVG can. You seem to be claiming that Artest gets his strength from his background and equate that with his anger issues. His background will never change and as such, will always be a prime motivating factor for him, and I would not suggest that Artest try to quench his anger as it does seem to give him strength. However, it is possible to channel and use that anger in constructive ways, assuming he is willing to work on that. I don't believe Artest to be a panacea, but if JVG (and CD and Les for that matter) thinks he can bring this kid around, I would stand behind my coach's decision and would cheer for Artest in a Rox uni. If you want to win big, sometimes you have to risk big.
This sounds like the worst idea out there. This is the last thing that our young players, Yao and TMac, need. The guy was actually asking for some time off during the season so he could go produce his rap album. I recommend that anyone who wants to trade for this hack should go watch the footage of him punching the guy in the face and imagine him in a Rockets uniform. I think I'm gonna go vomit just from imagining that.
Are you worried that Yao and Tmac will become thugs by playing alongside Artest? As far as the rap album goes, the story is not complete. We never got Artest's reason for wanting to work on the album. Maybe he didn't feel supported by his team and wanted out? Maybe he needed some time off to get his life together. Answers aren't always black or white. The rest of what you said is your business and I respect those opinions.
That's a freaking odd way of flirting, then .. Just kidding. Artest would be a monster on this team, and Van Gundy, is honestly, the only coach in the NBA that can get the guy under control. We would have the best perimeter defense in the league with the addition of him. Is he worth the risk? Hell yeah, but I don't know how the Pacers are going to select the Rockets out of all the other teams that want him.
get Him in a rockets uniform. Heck I also wouldn't mind getting jamal tinsley in the trade too. Artest would be a huge difference in being a contending team and just a mere playoff team. His problems are on the court and maybe he'll pump in some rage in Yao! If we could take a risk in getting Maxwell that year Artest should be nada.
Just thought I'd point out that in the today's edition of Florida Today, it says that Bird is telling people that Ron Artest is not on the trading block. http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050612/COLUMNISTS0304/506120332/1063/SPORTS Indiana Pacers president Larry Bird is telling NBA types that suspended small forward Ron Artest is not available in trades and that if there is a summer league -- it could be wiped out by the lockout -- Artest will play for the Pacers.
What I have heard from a 'semi-reliable' source is that Artest will not be traded, but his buddies will be marketed -- SJax and TINSLEY! One is 'sure' to go.
