shrug, at the expense of having a cancer in the locker room and having the constant media distractions circulating around a young team. whatever.. the whole point is moot anyways because chandler hasnt had character problems, and hasnt expressed discontent to the chicago franchise anyways.
Clearly the Clippers didn't want to keep Odom. The statement: "if a team wants to keep a restricted player, nothing will stand in their way" is a byproduct of the system in place. It is impossible to disprove with an example of a player not being matched, as obviously, in those cases, the team didn't want to keep said player.
I think Tyson Chandler is the perfect fit for the team. Any offensively minded PF will be underutilized in deference to Tmac's outside game and Yao's low post game. However, all of Chandler's expanding defensive gifts will be fully utilized under JVG. And you can't just ignore him on offense like Bowen. Every other conceivable FA on the market has some big drawbacks. Maybe we won't be able to grab Chandler next season, but how about the 06/07 season? Could Houston keep it's championship hopes alive for 05/06, while gunning for Chandler in 06? Keep in mind I have only a cursory knowledge about cap and exceptions, so forgive me: 05/06 1) Tyson ends up taking Chicago's tender offer. Becomes free agent in the next season. 2) Rockets draft best PF available. 3) Drop Bowen, Padge, and Braggs. 4) Resign Barry 1 year for min., Deke for 2yr/9mil. 5) Try to trade Sura or James in a SnT with Seattle for AD. Maybe Wesley, but he's the best SG and I'd like to keep his expiring contract. Basically whoever it takes. Do we have any trade exception? 6) Sign a SG for most of the MLE. Young, good defender, hits the three. Lots of SG on the market this year. Maybe Raja Bell? Might be cheap. 7) Convince Robert Horry to come back for vet minimum. Up to 1.8 mil? Is there even an exception for vet min.? 8) Get cheap backup SF for Tmac if any MLE left. Luke Walton? Not athletic or three point shooter, but gets teammates involved. AD, (Sura/James) Wesley, (Bell?), Barry Tmac, Barry, (Walton?) Howard, rookie, Horry, Spoon Yao, Deke Basically, we'd add athletic guys to our PG and SG positions, but nothing to our weak link, the PF position. If Howard has a halfway decent season as a starter, we can trade him at the deadline for another expiring contract. We'd let our expiring contracts run out and hopefully the new cap will allow us to offer Chandler a nice contract. Rumors are the new cap will be 51-53 mil. If Chandler seems unattainable during season, trade expiring contracts at deadline for a good player. They might be worth more at the deadline than the offseason anyways. Hopefully, the PF rookie can learn to contribute quickly. If he can't Horry is insurance backup PF. If our draft pick is a swingman instead of PF, then get Chris Anderson with the MLE and let the rookie log minutes in Barry's place and as backup for Tmac. Does this sound feasible?
You have a ton of good points here. One player is not worth spending a ton of time on when there are so many options out there. I do see Chandler as the best future option at four because of his age and the type of game he plays. I never said he was worth the max contract (I did say 14 million, but that was only for one year) , but I think he would be worth a 6 year 48 million dollar deal. The Bulls probably think so too. A three way trade seems like the best solution up until this point if the Rockets are going to go for Chandler. Next Question: If we could get Chandler in a 3 or 4-way trade, who would you give up on the team besides the two obvious values. Chandler is 23 and is a rebounding/defensively skilled player. I think we need more defense at the four and more rebounding and he fills both of these voids. What third parties are looking at our team and want something we have? Sura can make a team tough as a relatively cheap PG. Teams that play soft might be interested in him. Expiring contracts are supposed to have value and we have a couple of those too. What value do the Rockets have for trades? Shareef Abdur Rahim is a great option too. The guy can score and is a pretty good rebounder. If the price was right then I think he's a good option too. I agree with what JVG said in that interview recently, we have to upgrade our team to get further in the playoffs. SAR would do that. Would SAR need to be a sign and trade deal to make the numbers work? NIKEstrad, I get what you were saying about getting Tim Duncan and it being impossible, but Chandler is several notches below him. I think there is a deal that could be made that multiple parties would be happy with. I think the likihood of it happening hinges on how much Chandler wants to leave the Bulls. If he is going to be a disgruntled worker then he is more likely to be traded. If he is happy there or just wants to play for the money then I doubt he'll land in Houston. I'm still extremely angry for those that want me to be mad. This smilie proves it.
So what do you want to do? Change the entire Collective bargaining agreement so that we can get Tyson Chandler? It's. Not. Happening. I don't know how this could be clearer. The people on the floor below me are not wasting their energies trying to get Tyson Chandler. Your wishing to make it so won't make it so.
I'm fine with you giving up on this. I don't want to. The guy has not been signed and we don't have a PF with his skill set. I realize that the scenario is not likely, but that doesn't have to mean impossible. There might be some scenario that the Bulls might be willing to part with him, that is what I'm looking for. 'It's. Not. Happening.', is not an argument, it is your opinion. Getting Chandler would not be easy and may involve some luck, but it is still possible. And, what do you mean by, "The people on the floor below me"? This peaked my interest when I read your post the second time. (Also, you've got to be getting tired of me by now, if that's the case don't worry about all this. I don't expect everyone to have my attitude towards this year's free agency. But I'm going to put my ideas out there. )
yaomania is affiliated with the organization. don- My point is, getting Tyson Chandler IS as difficult as getting Duncan without giving up McGrady or Yao. Being a team over the cap without any plausible scenario to get under the cap makes it implausible for us to make an offer above $5 mill, and the Bulls have no reason to not match an offer of that magnitude. There's not even really a "wishful thinking" scenario for Chandler, as opposed to a guy like Swift. With Swift, you can at least make some justifiable excuses- Memphis doesn't want him back, he's an unrestricted free agent, he wants to play starter's minutes which we can offer, and we were his favorite team growing up. If he wanted to, he COULD sign here for a little less. Chandler can't. You can also justify Memphis may be open to make moves given their cap situation. There's just no similar logic process for Chandler. Chicago's cap situation is pretty impeccable. The only bad contracts they have run out next year. They have less than 10 mill committed for 2006-2007. That is why you don't hear any worries about them being able to afford both Chandler and Curry. Believe me, I'm a big Chandler fan. But I'm not convinced he's the absolute best option, and even if he were, there's not much we can do to get him. Chicago wants Chandler back. Compare it to Abdur-Rahim- Portland has Randolph, so they don't really want/need SAR back (playing them together failed miserably). Portland also wants to rebuild so they'd be open to trades. Getting SAR would have infinitely less resistance than Chandler, and personally, I'd prefer SAR. My question for you: if a team had resources enough to make Chicago trade Chandler for their package, why wouldn't THEY want Chandler? Or, why would they want say Wesley and Sura more than Chandler? If they could get Chandler, wouldn't these same resources be able to get better players than what we could offer? You're trying to go through the wall rather than walk around it.
No. . . it's not my opinion. These are the facts. They are indisputable. Read NIKEStrad's reasonings - he put it a lot more clearly than I ever could as to why it's not happening. And when I say the people on the floor below me - I mean the people who will be responsible for bringing in Yao and TMac's new teammates.
I know how you feel Don. The way you feel about Tyson Chandler is the same way I feel about Jessica Alba but we all will eventually come to the conclusion that, no, it's never going to happen.
I am not looking for the easy way out here. I have no way to dispute your statement. The reason I think teams may not be that interested in Chandler is because he doesn't have a real offensive game. Team are always looking to add scoring and defensive/rebounding players are not a huge value in the NBA when compared to offensive numbers. I feel like Chandler is a role player on the Bulls and will be where ever he goes. Like I said in my original thread, I have no idea what Chandler's real market value is, but based on his offensive numbers he's special to a few teams that desire his skill set, but not all teams. I like him because I think he'd be a good fit and may prosper in Houston. Under ten in both rebs and pts per game don't shout untradeable player. I would never put him in the same grouping as the other great PFs in the league like Duncan. Saying that we need McGrady to land a 9.7 reb, 8.0 pts, 0.8 ast, 1.8 block guy is not fair. There are players like Amare that would take a McGrady or Duncan or Garnett type player to land. I just don't think a 8 and 9.7 guy demands that caliber of a trade. Scenario with assumptions: The Bulls feel like they will not be able to keep Chandler for more than a year. They make a trade to get some value out of him before he jets next season. They want to replace him with another young power forward with NBA experience right away. Swift is a young power forward that might be able to replace some of Chandler's talents for the Bulls. The Griz don't want Chandler because they've already got a couple of solid PFs and a rookie of the year playing the position. The Griz want cap room and expiring contracts because they are tired of being mediocre. They want to make a move at a superstar after next season and desire the means to free up cap space. We give them cap space and expiring contracts for Chandler. NIKEstrad, I don't know if that would work after sign and trades, etc, but I'm giving you a scenario that all parties would benefit from. Chicago gets a guy that wants to be in Chicago, we get Chandler who (I think) would be a good fit in Houston and the Griz get future cap room that will give them the ability to land a star. The deal is not equal by any means, but all parties do benefit. The weaknesses in my argument are Chandler not wanting to be a Bull(I have no clue what's in his head), that the Bulls would be satisfied with Swift and that the Griz want cap room for the future. These are just assumptions based on what I've heard on this site in other (also) unreliable threads. So... am I getting closer to walking around the wall if nothing else? and thanks for continuing to listen to me. I really do appreciate you taking me seriously.
Come up with ideas that they(on the floor below you) haven't thought of and you'll be working on the same floor with them. That's cool that you're working for a great team. That's got to be a dream job of sorts. It would be for me. Congrats! However, I still disagree with you on saying that getting Chandler 'can't' happen. I really think you are giving up too easily. The guy is not untouchable. Shaq got traded for who? We got Drexler for Thorpe. Michael Jordan was not the first pick in the draft. McGrady scored 13 points in 35 seconds. The point is that not all things that happen in the NBA make a whole lot of sense. Showing the Bulls that they would benefit from trading Chandler to us is the trick. He isn't a sure thing and hasn't been a superstar in the NBA, the Bulls know that. A superstar emerges early like Amare did, like Kobe, like Shaq. Chandler has played four seasons and made it to 8 and 9.7. This is not a superstar, but he does have a lot of value to us because of his unique skill set. The Bulls know he's not going to be the man offensively and might be willing to part with him no matter what they say publicly. The Bulls could be working the media front and trying to get value out of Chandler by saying they'll match any offer. The truth might be that they are just saying that they want something for developing him and won't let him go without something in return.
Rest assured that the real trades when they go down will be more outlandish than anything we come up with here. They always are.
I'll take a crack at this. I'll probably end up repeating much of what NIKE and others have said, and not half as clearly, but oh well. You are right in that it pretty much does come down to Chandler not wanting to be a Bull anymore. In terms of money, all signs indicate that Chicago can and will offer Chandler more money than anyone else. The earlier discussion about restricted free agency is relevant. Restricted free agency really is kind of a raw deal for players. The only way they can jump to another team as a restricted free agent is if another team is willing to pay way, way more than the current team. Again, we don't have the caproom to try something like this, and rules prohibit trying to get around it by involving a third team as you've suggested. If Chandler were to want out of the Bulls, he'd first try to find a team that's willing and actually has the cap room to pay much more than the Bulls are willing to match (unlikely). If not, his best bet would be to essentially refuse a guaranteed contract offer from Chicago and take a one-year deal at the rookie scale and become an unrestricted free agent next year (this is what Stromile Swift has done). Then he could go to any team he wants (including the Rockets), but Chicago would still be able to offer Chandler more money than any other team. Next year, the Rockets are not likely to be to be able to offer Chandler any more than this year, which is probably only about 2/3 of what Chicago is likely to offer. Essentially, it's all up to Chandler and Chicago. Unfortunately, all signs indicate that Chicago wants and will be able to give Chandler the type of money he is worth (again, more than the Rockets can offer) and that Chandler is quite happy staying with the Bulls. If anything, Eddy Curry is the more likely of the two Baby Bulls to not return to Chicago. If you would like a more credible source of information on Chandler and Chicago intentions, I'd check out the Bulls board on realgm.com.
OK, I followed the rules and read each and every response throughly now, so don't kill me for not reading. From what I see everyone is missing the big picture here in improving the Rockets. Yes Tyson is an interesting prospect, but is he truely the answer. He is an interesting prospect that we have seen SLOWLY evolve, he has taken no real large strides in player improvement, and For this I bring you my SALVAGE THE ROCKETS Plan. 1. Trade Torraye Braggs and Ryan Bowen to the Suns for Amare. Hey they need financial flexiablity. 2. Trade Mike James to Portland for the 3rd draft pick, and take Chris Paul 3. Do a sign and Trade with Milaukee with Moochie Norris and Vin Baker for Micheal Redd. Starting Line Up 1 Chris Paul 2. Micheal Reed 3. T-Mac 4. Amare 5. Yao See, now wasn't that simple. Just mediate on the idea for a while and embrace it. JaMoney for VP or Personel.
I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Once a restricted free agent signs a deal with another team, he either goes to the new team, or stays with his old team if the old team matches the deal. Although I don't know the time restrictions, I'm pretty sure the player cannot be traded by either team for at least some time. But aelliot, NIKE, et. al are the authorities. I know you say you don't really care for the nitty-gritty, but if you're really interested in exploring what's feasible and what's not, the link below is one of the best places for answers: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
So it looks like Chicago has to just let Chandler go for us to get him right away. Could Chandler be a middle of the season move? Or once he's signed the offer sheet from Chicago, how long do they have to wait to trade him? It does not seem like he'd be worth waiting 15 days to hear about. If we did sign him with whatever money we've got and Chicago matched on the last day, we'd miss out of 15 days of free agency. How can we get cap room at this stage? Can we cut players and if we do, do we free up cap space? If we can't sign Chandler, why would we be able to sign anyone of value? What do the Rockets have at this point that can lure free agents and help us make trades?
