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Immortality at our fingertips? (heavy science reading)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MartianMan, May 17, 2005.

  1. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    Why humans grow old grungily

    * 14 May 2005
    * Jon Turney


    MY ATTIC is a sad sight, a jumble of frayed carpet offcuts, half-empty cans of congealed paint, broken videos, dead computers and inoperative exercise bikes. Just the thought of dragging it all to the dump tires me out.

    Something similar is happening inside my body's cells - at least according to a new theory about why we age. The rubbish is piling up, and while I could clear it all out, that would take a lot of effort. So my metabolic cleaning systems are set to "don't bother", and the result is that harmful garbage is accumulating.

    Junk plays a central role in many theories of ageing. The "free radical" theory, for example, suggests that ageing is caused by highly reactive oxygen species that gradually turn DNA and proteins into toxic rubbish. But now there is a new take on junk, where it comes from, and how it causes us to get old. By analysing unusually long-lived variants of the tiny nematode worm Caenorhabditis elegans, David Gems and Josh McElwee of University College London's Centre for Research on Ageing have found that free radicals are just one part of a much bigger story.

    The story begins in 1993 when Cynthia Kenyon of the University of California, San Francisco, discovered that some strains of C. elegans with mutations in a gene called daf-2 lived more than twice as long as normal. This appeared to show that ageing was controlled by genes, contradicting the widespread view that it was largely the result of wear and tear inflicted by free radicals. Not surprisingly the results caused a stir. Many researchers were puzzled about how genes for ageing could evolve through natural selection.

    However, similar genes were soon found in flies and mice. There is now good evidence that flies can live longer as a result of mutations in these genes, and early results in mice point the same way. Most researchers now accept that flies and nematode worms possess genes which can exert a powerful influence on lifespan, and that similar genes could be important for humans too. But what do all those genes actually do? This has been the big question ever since.

    A few years after Kenyon's discovery, researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston worked out what the daf-2 gene does. They found that it specifies a cell-surface receptor that recognises a signalling protein called IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). Like many such receptors, daf-2 turned out to be at the apex of a powerful signalling cascade. When IGF-1 binds to the receptor, it transmits a message to the inside of the cell, switching on another gene, daf-16, which Kenyon's group found could also influence longevity. It turned out that daf-16 codes for a "suppressor" protein that binds to genes and turns them off. Mutations in daf-2 apparently extend life by suppressing this suppression, keeping numerous genes active that would otherwise be switched off.

    But which genes was daf-2 affecting? Kenyon's group tried to find out using one of the latest technologies for probing gene expression: microarrays or "gene chips" that pack huge numbers of short DNA sequences onto a glass slide. By taking RNA molecules - the direct transcriptions of any gene - from living cells and seeing which DNA sequences these bind to, microarrays can tell you which genes are active. Kenyon's idea was to compare gene expression in normal C. elegans with that of long-lived daf-16 mutants, and two years ago she showed that mutations in daf-16 affect more than 300 genes.

    Then she looked to see if any of these genes might be linked with longevity. Three kinds stood out. Some directed the cell to make antibacterial enzymes, which are vital for a worm that dines on bacteria that can also kill it. Others coded for heat-shock proteins, which protect cells against damage from high temperatures. A third type shielded against free radicals.

    Gems and his colleagues, however, doubted that this was the full story. Kenyon was focusing on these genes, they suggested, because they fitted in with established theories of ageing, particularly the free-radical theory. What about all the others? And so they did the same experiment, but picked out the important genes using a statistical analysis designed to eliminate any bias toward the usual suspects (Mechanisms of Ageing and Development, vol 126, p 381).

    They identified two main groups of genes that are more active in the long-lived worms. One group codes for proteins known as chaperonins, which are involved in helping proteins keep their shapes under stress and include the heat-shock genes flagged in Kenyon's study. The other, larger set covers a variety of enzymes involved in breaking down toxic by-products of metabolism.

    Most of these enzymes were already known from mammalian liver cells, where they neutralise drugs, toxins and carcinogens. But they also help dispose of harmful chemicals that occur naturally inside all cells. As Gems sees it, this second battery of enzymes comprises a general detox and maintenance system that deals with all manner of molecular junk.

    Some of this junk is generated by free radicals, but by no means all of it. Cells are constantly breaking down and rebuilding complicated chemicals, and as Gems puts it, "there are an infinite number of ways for things to go wrong". So cells need huge families of garbage-disposal enzymes to deal with all the junk they create. But the system carries a heavy overhead. It consumes lots of energy the organism could use elsewhere - particularly in reproduction.

    And that gives natural selection something to work on. Individuals that damp down their garbage disposal systems and use the energy for reproduction gain a short-term competitive advantage over those that keep on detoxing. Of course, the price they pay is ageing more rapidly and dying younger, but on the whole natural selection couldn't care less what happens to an organism after it has reproduced.

    The end result is that evolution has favoured cells that opt out of the detox business and allow molecular detritus to pile up. Gems and McElwee now believe that ageing is largely due to a breakdown in routine waste disposal and maintenance - what they call the "green theory" of ageing. In the end, the crud piles up and poisons your cells.

    Others in the field are taking notice, but are not yet convinced. "It pushes a lot of the right buttons," says Mark Viney of the University of Bristol, UK. But he warns that it will be laborious to test: you would have to deactivate each gene one by one to see what effect it has. "There are hundreds of genes," Gems admits.

    And what of the prospects for using the green theory to combat the problem of human ageing? As it is more general than, say, free-radical theories of damage, you'd probably have to do lots of different things to keep the junk at bay. But the hope is that one or two of the genes involved in this system will turn out to have big effects all by themselves. Then, perhaps, we can learn to harness their effects, and live longer lives. Maybe I'd even find the time to clean out my attic.
     
  2. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    Basically, it says we age because we build up junk in our body. We can live for a VERY long time if we activate the right genes.

    Question is, do we want to live forever?
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    This could've been a Hangout topic.

    I think this research is ways to go towards hitting its goals.

    Living beyond old is only great if you still feel young. If growing old means being a bag of bones supported by a wheel chair, then the young and present me will take a pass at that. I wouldn't be surprised if being 60 yrs old would feel like a 45 year old in the next 10 years. Biotech is scary.
     
  4. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Interesting read, particularly since some of my relatives are involved in research on aging and death.

    This makes sense to me particularly when you consider that it seems like species that have a higher fecundity seem to have shorter lives than species that don't. The evolutionary tradeoff being that a species like us or elephants have fewer offspring but live long enough to raise them as compared to a mayfly that just dumps a lot of eggs and then dies.

    Another reason I think evolutionary while our genes are programmed to kill us off is that any single organism as it lives longer is more subject to greater possibility of chromosomal damage so killing programmed death might be a way of making sure that genes get passed on to the offspring before the organism gets so old that chromosomal damage accumulates.

    Well it is looking for an Evolutionary reason for death and as we see from the ID thread that's a pretty controversial topic.

    Perhaps a certain poster who pines for the Vancouver Grizzlies will drop by and explain how genetic determined death has to be divine will (no wait he denies ID has anything to do with the divine. :rolleyes: ) is intended by some superintelligent alien.
     
  5. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    Well, we can discuss the evolutionary implications :rolleyes: ...OR we can discuss immortality and how immortality will affect the world, and if we should even pursue such a thing...
     
  6. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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  7. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    It certainly would make population control a very important issue.

    Every aspect of our culture could completely stagnate from lack of new blood.

    On the plus side, it could really open doors to space exploration. 100+ year trips to neighboring star systems wouldn't seem near as daunting if we could live forever, barring injury or disease.
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I was thinking of telomeres and the short lived Dolly, but I think even if we master its system wide cell regeneration, we'd still have defective oncogenes that could be mostly caused by free radicals.

    We are not designed to last. I believe in the theory that life is a form of propagating code while the consciousness derived from it is just an afterthought designed to increase odds.

    Cell apoptosis/death happens all the time from the moment you're conceived. It's how we form fingers from a lump of cells. It's also how white blood cells don't rapidly take over the body after killing off the pathogen. Death is necessary.

    That's what bothers me to no end. Discussing science and biology might be boring 0 reply topics in a sports forum, but these applications extend being theology. I think both sides are to blame for that.

    I shudder to think that the reason this thread was put here was because of forces that think science and religion are mutually exclusive. Deists like our Founding Fathers believed in science and discovery to explore the Natural world the Creator left behind.

    /end rant
     
  9. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    Telomeres? Is this high school biology or something? Here you go:

    How to lengthen telomeres

    But the real question is, when will Christians intervene to stop this age-defying research? :D
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    You're right but I was speaking of death of the whole organism rather than individual or groups of cell. My point was that its a well known that when women become pregnant later in life their is a higher probability of birth defects while for males fathering and raising children is more difficult later in life. From an evolutionary standpoint it seem to make sense that programmed death and aging would be a successful strategy to keep members of a species from breeding or raising children far beyond their prime. Also give offspring a chance by not having to compete for resources with long lived ancestors.
     
  11. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    The more I think about it the more I think humanity isn't near ready for immortality or even very long life. If medical science develops a way to greatly increase human longevity we may end up with a huge disparity in humanity between long lived haves and short lived nots. That will lead an ultimate classicist divide to the point of possibly dividing humanity into two different species where the powerful long lived haves, who will probably come from already wealthy and powerful nations, will not even share a common humanity with the poor short lived people.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's most likely that when we rid ourselves of that death program, cancer and other grisly consequences will cause death or intense suffering to the organism. The changes would have to be specific and systematic like telling which room inside a hotel to turn on a light.

    Yeah, I totally misread your point. For some reason I thought about the topic of immortality and put your quote in it.
     
  13. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    its not like that never happens around here.;)
     

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