1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Patriot Act back under review

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rhadamanthus, May 11, 2005.

  1. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    http://news.com.com/Congress+plans+scrutiny+of+Patriot+Act/2100-1028_3-5700986.html?tag=nefd.top

    Congress is returning to the controversial topic of whether to renew key portions of the Patriot Act.

    Both the Senate and House of Representatives have scheduled hearings on Tuesday that are part of an extended process of reviewing the portions of the 2001 law that are scheduled to expire on Dec. 31. Many of those 16 portions deal with computer and Internet surveillance.

    Politicians are nervous about being criticized for a repeat of the process that led to the rapid-fire enactment of the Patriot Act just weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. At the time, members of Congress were required to vote on the legislation without having time to read it in advance, and little debate was permitted.

    This time around, politicians aren't opening themselves up for that kind of criticism again. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc., has scheduled 10 hearings so far on the Patriot Act. Senate Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Penn., has said he'll hold at least three of them.

    The process has led to some illuminating results. One hearing disclosed police invoked the Patriot Act 108 times in a 22-month period when surreptitiously entering and searching a home or office without notifying the owner.

    Another hearing last week provided additional details about how the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers used public libraries' Internet connections. Wail Al Shehri, Waleed Al Shehri and Marwan Al Shehhi visited a public library in Delray Beach, Fla., and asked to use the Internet connection in July 2001, U.S. Attorney Kenneth Wainstein said.

    Under section 215 of the Patriot Act, which has alarmed librarians, secret court orders can be used to obtain records or "tangible items" from any person or organization if the FBI claims a link to terrorism. The recipient of the secret order is gagged, and disclosing its existence is punished by a prison term. Section 215 is set to expire at the end of the year.

    -----

    Here's to hoping this awful law burns.
     
  2. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Sections set to expire:

    Section 201 -- Gives federal officials the authority to intercept wire, spoken and electronic communications relating to terrorism.

    Section 202 -- Gives federal officials the authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to computer fraud and abuse offenses.

    Subsection 203(b) -- Permits the sharing of grand jury information that involves foreign intelligence or counterintelligence with federal law enforcement, intelligence, protective, immigration, national defense, or national security officials

    Subsection 203(d) -- Gives foreign intelligence or counterintelligence officers the ability to share foreign intelligence information obtained as part of a criminal investigation with law enforcement.

    Section 204 -- Makes clear that nothing in the law regarding pen registers -- an electronic device which records all numbers dialed from a particular phone line -- stops the government's ability to obtain foreign intelligence information.

    Section 206 -- Allows federal officials to issue roving "John Doe" wiretaps for spy and anti-terrorism investigations.

    Section 207 -- Increases the amount of time that federal officials can watch people they suspect are spies or terrorists.

    Section 209 -- Permits the seizure of voicemail messages under a warrant.

    Section 212 -- Permits ISP (Internet service providers) and other electronic communication and remote computing service providers to hand over records and e-mails to federal officials in emergency situations.

    Section 214 -- Allows use of a pen register or trap and trace devices -- a device records the originating phone numbers of all incoming calls on a particular phone line -- in international terrorism or spy investigations.

    Section 215 -- Authorizes federal officials to obtain "tangible items" like business records -- including those from libraries and bookstores _for foreign intelligence and international terrorism investigations.

    Section 217 -- Makes it lawful to intercept the wire or electronic communication of a computer hacker or intruder in certain circumstances.

    Section 218 -- Allows federal officials to wiretap or watch suspects if foreign intelligence gathering is a "significant purpose" for seeking a FISA (Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act) order. The pre-Patriot Act standard said they could ask for the surveillance only if it was "the" sole or main purpose.

    Section 220 -- Provides for nationwide service of search warrants for electronic evidence

    Section 223 -- Amends the federal criminal code to provide for administrative discipline of federal officers or employees who violate prohibitions against unauthorized disclosures of information gathered under this act.

    Section 225 -- Amends FISA to prohibit lawsuits against people or companies that provide information to federal officials for a terrorism investigation.
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    6,636
    We need all the freedoms possible to ensure than another 9-11 does not occur.

    I trust the judgment of law enforcement to use this wisely, as they have the public interest in their intentions.

    I am 100% in favor of renewing the PATRIOT Act.
     
  4. thadeus

    thadeus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,313
    Likes Received:
    726
    No kidding.
     
  5. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    3
    I thought Trader-Jorge joined the army? :confused:
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    14,138
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    T_J joined the army of paid conservative reporters.;)
     
  7. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    5,174
    Likes Received:
    3
    but why were republicans against a similar act that did not get passed in 1997 after the first WTC attack?

    oh, that's right, because it had a part that required stricter background checks for arms sales.
     
  8. thegary

    thegary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,018
    Likes Received:
    3,145
  9. losttexan

    losttexan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 1999
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    You trust hundreds of thousands of people you don't even know with far more power ever given to US law enforcement (much of it unconstitional) than has ever been given because you believe they have the public interest at heart?

    Why not take away all restrictions? If the government could spy on all the people all the time we could have no domestic terriorists!!

    Thank god our founding fathers didn't think like you.
    People need to fight for their freedoms. I'll take some risk in order to be free. That's what our soldiers have done and still do. This is no time for cowards.
    Remember the Road to Hell is paid with good intentions.
     
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    21,290
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    So did the National Guard at Kent State.
     
  11. thadeus

    thadeus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,313
    Likes Received:
    726
    :D
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    16,187
    Likes Received:
    2,834
    Anybody care to point out which of those provisions they find especially troubling? I have to say that none of them really jumped out as affecting me in any way.
     
  13. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    6,636
    Nice, go back 30 years to find one isolated incident. Man, your point is rock solid.

    What's the matter with believing in the hard working Americans who serve our country in law enforcement roles? Why must liberals insist that they are sinister people out to destroy our lives?
     
  14. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Ahhhh yes.

    The ol' "Take away our freedoms in the name of freedom" defense.

    You hypocritical tool.



    I'll go back to ignoring you now.
     
  15. rimbaud

    rimbaud Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 1999
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    676
    I would reply to this but I am too busy plotting how to kill our brave soldiers with a bunch of twist ties.
     
  16. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    6,636
    Why don't you have some respect for the Americans going through he** over in the Middle East to protect our nation. I guarantee you if you knew anyone serving or family members of those serving, you would not be thumbing your nose at their efforts.
     
  17. rimbaud

    rimbaud Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 1999
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    676
    If I knew a bunch it would make my job a lot easier. I would know where to find them all. At last count I have 548 twist ties...
     
  18. losttexan

    losttexan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 1999
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was in the military during the first Gulf War and I know people over there now and I have no desire to see politicians throw away the lives of young patriotic Americans just to line the pockets of the oil companies and the military industrial complex.
     
  19. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,655
    tj, anyone with half a brain can see that he is thumbing his nose at you, not U.S. soldiers. You may suffer under the delusion that ridiculing you is the same as ridiculing our brave soldiers, however your role as a military leg humper does not accord you the same respect due to those who actually serve in the military.
     
  20. AggieRocket

    AggieRocket Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent comparison.
     

Share This Page