1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Million Lebanese March: "Please don't let Bush forget us."

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,445
    Likes Received:
    9,333
    i'll see your 500k...

    http://www.nysun.com/article/10560

    --
    Million Lebanese Stage Massive Retort to Terrorists

    BY CLAUDIA ROSETT - Special to the Sun
    March 15, 2005
    URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/10560

    BEIRUT - Flags fluttering, horns honking, and fingers flashing V for victory, Lebanon's opposition converged on downtown Beirut yesterday in the biggest democratic protest in the history of the modern Middle East.

    Their numbers - about a million strong - were a retort to the rival protests staged last week by the terrorist group Hezbollah, and a message to each other and the world that the Lebanese people are serious in their demands for - as the crowd chanted over and over - "Freedom, Sovereignty, Independence."

    They want Syria's Baathist regime out of Lebanon. They want to know who plotted the bombing on February 14 that killed the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, which most blame on Syria. And what they have already achieved is that after years under Syria's shadow, they have regained their dignity. The colors of the movement are those of the Lebanese flag, reflecting its red and white stripes and green cedar tree. And those colors are everywhere - in the red-and-white ribbons, scarves, and bandannas, on balloons, kites, banners, posters, and even the form-fitting clothing favored in this most Bohemian of Arab capitals.

    What these protesters repeated in interview after interview, in a Martyr's Square so packed with people that it was, at times, almost impossible to move, is that they want war and repression to end. They want peace, work, and, most immediately, they want Lebanese democratic self-rule - not Syria's jackboot version of "stability." "We have children here," said housewife Goumana Fayad, who attended the demonstration with her two teenage sons. "We want them to be educated to live in peace."

    Among the most promising aspects of this opposition movement is the extent to which it has brought together disparate factions, namely Christians, Sunni Muslims, and Druze. Previously, the democratic opposition was predominantly Christian. Hariri was a Sunni Muslim. His assassination has galvanized Lebanon's Sunni community, which made a strong showing at yesterday's demonstration, many with entire families in tow. From 18-year-old Sara Abou Abdo, wearing a silver headscarf, came the comment: "All Lebanon has to be free to take their decisions on their own, and all people should come to favor freedom."

    Many of the demonstrators want the free world to keep a spotlight on Lebanon right now. That tack may be their best chance for keeping both Syria and the pro-Syrian, Iranian-funded Hezbollah at bay. Lebanon is currently the focus of intricate diplomatic maneuvers by both America and the United Nations aimed at pressing Syria to comply with last year's U.N. resolution 1559, which requires that all Syrian troops and security forces leave Lebanon and that the militias disarm, a clause that points straight to Hezbollah. So far, Syria has dragged its feet, and Hezbollah remains armed.

    In recent weeks, both President Bush and Secretary of State Rice have often urged Syria's speedy departure and lent support to Lebanon's democratic protesters. That's a notable departure from U.S. policy over the past generation, which, under the banner of supporting the status quo, gave a nod to Syria's chokehold on Lebanon. It was not until 2003, as Mr. Bush prepared to overturn the Middle East apple cart by overthrowing Iraq's Saddam Hussein, that America began to describe Syria's presence in Lebanon as an "occupation." More recently, in keeping with Mr. Bush's post-September 11, 2001, doctrine of promoting democracy rather than simply "stability," so long favored in the Middle East, the White House has been telling Lebanon's democrats that America will keep its faith with them.

    In Beirut yesterday, it was clear that message has been heard. Unlike the Hezbollah demonstrators with their chants of "Death to America," many in the crowd were friendly to Americans. "Thank's Free World," (sic) said one poster, held high by a woman in a bright red jacket, Rawya Okal, who told me: "We thank Mr. Bush for his position." Overhearing this in the throng, a middle-aged man in a green baseball cap, Louis Nahanna, leaned over to say, "We love the American people" - adding, "Please don't let Bush forget us. Your support is very important."

    Asking more people what they thought of Americans turned up the same refrain. From a young driver, Fadi Mrad, came the message: "We want to change. We need freedom. Please don't let Bush forget us." From a group of young men came not only the message "Our hope is America," and "We believe in democracy in the Middle East," but also praise for Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. There was also an invitation from one of them, young Edgard Baradhy, for his heroine, Ms. Rice, to come to Beirut "and I am ready to take her for coffee."

    At one point, two young men sitting on a sidewalk mistook this reporter for a Frenchwoman, and called out "Vive la France!" The European nation's president, Jacques Chirac, has also come out in support of the democratic movement. When I told them that I was American, they got to their feet and came over to say, "Welcome to Lebanon."

    And in the numbers game played out over the past week that has left commentators comparing Hezbollah's crowds to those of the democratic opposition, it is important to note that yesterday's protestors showed up not under the orders of any authority, but because they are willing to risk Syria's ire. Unlike the Hezbollah demonstrators, who dispersed at speed the moment their rallies were over, yesterday's demonstrators lingered - sitting, talking, waving flags, and savoring a display of public will in which almost one-quarter of Lebanon's 4.4 million people had demonstrated for their right to join the free world.

    These demonstrators are well aware that hazards lie ahead. In losing Lebanon, the repressive Syrian regime may face a fight for its own survival back home in Damascus, and will no doubt be looking for ways to undercut Lebanon's democratic movement, or slow down its withdrawal until world attention drifts. Last night in Beirut there was talk that Lebanese authorities, some still in thrall to Syria, might try to clear away the tent encampment in Martyr's Square, from which the democratic demonstrators have operated since Hariri's murder set off this uprising. There is also the threat of Hezbollah, now serving as the proxy face of Syria in Lebanon - literally parading posters of Syria's President Assad through the streets of Beirut last week.

    But there is also a keen sense here of just how fast and far Lebanon's people have come in the quest to recover their rights. Back in 2002, on a visit to Beirut, a group of student leaders here told me that they felt that despite Lebanon's prewar history of democratic institutions, their country had since been abandoned by the free world. They despaired of Syria ever exiting Lebanon, and saw no alternative but to immigrate if they could. They were scared enough of Syria's security agents that they asked their names not be published. Now, at least two of them have turned up among the democratic protesters. And the democratic activist who convened that group, Fadi Amrou Jamra, commenting on yesterday's landmark protest, says, "You want elections? We're ready for elections now!"

    [​IMG]

    looks like a braveheart to me...
     
  2. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    What's in the foreground makes me a lot braver. :D

    I'm thinking about moving to Lebanon.

    Just curious Basso if Hezbollah put out 1.5 million next week what would you say?

    I think at this point its safe to say that Lebanon has a big political divide. Hopefully they'll just stick to trying outdo each other with rallies rather than try to reduce each others numbers more drastically.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,815
    Likes Received:
    20,477
    Will you be giving France some of the credit for democratic reform in the middle east, Basso?
     
  4. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,655
    I say they settle their differences with a good old fashioned wet t-shirt contest.
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,975
    Likes Received:
    41,563
    Nothing, but when the counter-counter-counter protest of 2.0 million sunnis/druze/christians rolls out in April - look out!
     
  6. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,445
    Likes Received:
    9,333
    it's clear who would win
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    Except both sides have been waving Lebanese flags and as we've seen both sides have um.. bountiful supporters.

    Basso how do you find these shots?
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,241
    Beirut used to be called, "the Paris of the Middle East." I would prefer to see the secular aspect of much of the marches we've seen, along with the relative respect and equality women of the Druze hold, illustrated by the photos we see in this thread, and in much of the news, as an example of how Lebanon is different, and has been different for generations from most of the rest of the region. I'm very encouraged by the peaceful demonstrations by both sides. Clearly, I'm far more pleased with those who want Syria out... a view I believe a large majority of Lebanese hold.

    Syria has yet to leave Lebanon, and has said many times before that it would, then moved some troops, and when the "heat" died down, the "status quo" returned, that of Syrian domination, regardless of the wishes of the Lebanese majority. The saber rattling of the Bush Administration may be emboldening the Lebanese to take to the streets, but the desire for a free and democratic Lebanon is nothing new.

    If Syria completely leaves Lebanon, and the country doesn't fall into civil war, I'll give a nod to the Bush Administration for providing the push, but if Syria does truly leave, and the country maintains a peaceful democracy, I'll be very surprised. I really hope that happens. I like surprises like that. They're rare enough in the region, that's for sure.



    Keep D&D Civil!!
     
  9. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    I don't think its clear that a majority of Lebanese want the Syrians out. From what little I understand of Lebanon the opposition is primarily based around Beirut while Hezbollah's strength is in the outside areas. Even so they were able to get 500K supporters out in Beirut. If Lebanon does end up having a fair and open election it wouldn't surprise me if Hezbollah and pro-Syrian parties end up controlling the country.

    In the meantime Basso keep those pics of the bountiful Lebanese protestors coming. :D
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,099
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    This reminds me of the Pepsi commericals "for those who think young" or whatever. It is always eye catching to have big-boobed young women riding on men's shoulders.

    Using sex appeal to sell civil wars.

    Pretty soon, if we haven't so far, we will see this motif on the US Armed Forces recruiting commercials. Maybe the shoulder riding thing is too far, (sort of a sexist connotation?) but their must be some way to use sex appeal to try to stem the decline in military enlistments while Bush and the neocons pursue empire. Showing the troops doing aerobics in sexually suggestive posture?

    I'm sure some PR frms are working on this.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,815
    Likes Received:
    20,477
    It isn't clear since we don't know what side she is for. Both sides use the Lebanese flag.
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,099
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    Hell, she might even get the moderate Madmax to go to a denmonstration.
     
  13. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    I'm sure the Lebanese, and the rest of us, prefer those guns to Kalishnikov's and RPGs. :D
     
  14. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,445
    Likes Received:
    9,333
  15. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    4,013
    Likes Received:
    952
    Yeah, but I would imagine Hizbollah support and cleavage shots aren't things normally freely associated. Especially considering our bearded Shi'ite friends support things like honor killings, and the oppression of women, much less "Fredo" Assad.
     
  16. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    4,013
    Likes Received:
    952
    like this?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,815
    Likes Received:
    20,477
    True, but the woman from the one pro Syria march was bareheaded with western style clothes on, so I wasn't sure.
     
  18. Mango

    Mango Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 1999
    Messages:
    10,211
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    There is a thread on a Shia BBS about events in Lebanon and people were posting various pictures from the Pro-Syria Demonstration.

    It seems that at least one poster noted a woman in a picture not being in proper dress and that she should be punished for that infraction.
     

Share This Page