OT: A reason why Nash should not get the MVP

T-Mac, Nowitzki, Nash, all those guys will get "considerations".

But bottom line? It will only come down to Shaq v. Duncan, and Shaq will run away with it.

If anyone besides Shaq gets it this year, then there should be a recount. His impact on that franchise is by far more than anyone else.

Nash is not the ONLY reason why Pheonix are having a great year. They signed Nash, Quentin Richardson, AND have Amare Stoudamire enjoying a breakout season. So ALL those factors make the Suns very good. This kinda reminds me of the Magic situation: they not only have SF3 and Cato, they got back a healthy Grant Hill, drafted a #1 pick PF in Dwight Howard, have a capable guard in Jameer Nelson, AND have a rising player in Hedo Torkuglu, not to forget Tony Battie and others.

However, a team like Miami is not really blessed with star cast of players besides Shaq and Wade. They have the often inconsistent Eddie Jones, a guy who is unusually having a good season in Damon Jones, and other blue-collar, hustle players to compliment their two stars. I think their team is rather similar to our team in talent/role players, except that they have the most dominant player on earth in Shaq.

Considerations are nice, but they mean nothing at the end.

Shaq is ahead of everyone else as far as I am concerned.

But not to worry, considering hopefully this team will get to play together healthy for a full season next year, WATCH OUT NBA! T-Mac (and who knows, may be even Yao) will be frontrunners for that trophy. I really think that our record would be comparable to the Heat, Suns, and Sonics if we had these players we have now from the very beginning of the season, and did not struggle like we did, which hurt our record a bit.

Next year, a 60-wins season is in the reach, especially if Yao has a landmark improvement due to his workout/conditioning in Houston this off season.

So the future is bright, barring injuries that is, so enjoy this one and look out for next year!

 

Never mind.

 

I am sorry, but stat is really not everything.

 

Agreed.

Phoenix did suck last year, but it wasn't from a lack of talent. They were already talented when they added Nash, Richardson, and others to the current squad.

Clearly Nash is the MVP for Phoenix, in such a way that without him they really suck. But the Rockets are 29-11 when Sura starts and 9-14 when he doesn't, but I don't expect Sura to get any MVP consideration.

Finally, it's hard for me to consider an MVP as a player who, in crunch time, at a big game, with all the marbles on the table, will be counted on to get someone else a more open shot then they can get on their own. Jordan, Kobe, McGrady, even Shaq...these are players who, when you need points, you put the ball in their hands and they get them. When the Suns need points, you put the ball in Nash's hand, he helps get someone else open 25 feet from the basket and it is up to that guy to make the shot.

In other words, Nash can play his ass off in the playoffs, but if Richardson isn't hitting, or Marion is slashing quite as much, they will lose. If Shaq turns his game up a notch, in the playoffs, well the Heat will win it all (not that Miami doesn't have good role players, too).

 

11 assists a game is a great number.

Nash is a great player...someone who makes others better.

How is Kobe doing this year?

DD

 

Nash deserves consideration in my mind - but i don't think he deserves to win.

 

Kidd came very close to getting MVP a few years ago but was edged by Duncan, who's Spurs had the best record in the league.

This year, I think the top 3 candidates are Nash, Shaq, and Duncan. Nash will probably get it just on the basis that Shaq and Duncan have already won it.

 

Nash makes his teammates better and is probably getting more out of his physical capabilities than any other player. However, I still have to go with a big man for MVP. In my book you have to have a huge impact defensively to get the award. Every team Nash plays for becomes an offensive juggernaut and terrible team defensively. Give me a guy who will shut down the middle, dominate the boards, and score at will, not to mention open things up for shooters just by standing at a certain spot on the floor.

I would give it to Duncan because his team has a record as good as Miami's while playing in the much tougher conference.

 

Why would you want the ball in shaqs hands at the end? so he can be fouled and miss FTs? Nash is MVP because he makes that team work and they are one of the top teams in the league. Just look how much the suck without him. Kidd didn't win the MVP cause he can't really shoot all that well. Steve Nash on the other hand can shoot lights out and can pass.

 

Kidd was a great defender back in the day (i.e.: back when he still had the use of both his knees). Steve Nash has never put any real effort into defense (outside of flopping), and neither have his teams.

Whatever happened to the IBM Award?

 

I dont understand how the MVP works..

There was tons of articles about why neither Shaq or Kobe could win anymore MVP's because they were playing alongside another superstar.

Same reasons it would be tough for SNash to ultimately win it. He is surrounded by too much talent.

I think the following are legit contenders with reasons.

Shaq - has been the ultimate game changer (still MDE) he has elevated the games of DWade and UHaslem.. notice wherever Shaq goes he makes someone a star, not that they werent good before but he helps elevate their games.

Duncan - He does the same thing in making Manu, TParker look like stars. I think on different teams they are not as effective and I dont think Manu does anything great but does alot of things well. My personal opinion is that TParker is the #2 on that team and makes them dangerous with his ability to penetrate.

RAllen - Has truly elevated his game (coincidence that its a contract year? I think NoT) but he really has taken the leadership role on that team and helped develop RLewis and some of the other young players. They do have a good mix but RAllen makes them go. Other than RAllen and RLewis who else do they have?

Dirk - I know the Mavs are stacked with talent but Dirk really makes that team a contender. Everyone thought with SNash leaving town that the team would fall apart but actually just the opposite this team could actually be a contender when Dampier comes back. Great defenders in JHoward, MDaniels, MFinley, and locking down the middle Damp. I dont like the guy but he makes them tough inside.

AI - If Philly wins their division I think AI gets some serious considerations. I know the team stinks but AI has been doing it all.

J

 

You should also consider the regular season records of those Nets teams versus this year's Suns. The Nets won 52 in 2001 and 49 in 2002 for only the fifth and eighth best records in the NBA those years. Contrast that with the Suns who already have 48 wins and are tied for the second best record overall in the NBA.

But I agree the Suns are way more talented than either of those Nets teams. And I wouldn't mind Kidd and Nash both getting MVP for the 2001 and 2005 respective seasons, given how much they turned their respective teams around in one season.

 

I've not been sold on Nash as MVP once this year. He's a one-side-of-the-court player, and is enjoying a ridiculous wealth of talent. He's the perfect guy for D'Antoni's system, but I just can't buy into the MVP talk. How many games has he taken over and won by himself?

Until Cleveland's tailspin, I favored LeBron.

I don't agree that Shaq is MVP, either. When you look closely at their games this year, you'll see that Wade has been at least as vital to their success, if not more so. Strange but true: the Heat have won a higher percentage of games when Shaq sits out or scores less than 20 points.

Evan

 

LJ???

He is awesome, he is definetely the best player at age of 20. But MVP? He is still far away from that imo.

Talking about impact and team performance and making teammates better, Shaq and TD are always there; Talking about turning a team around, you have Nash; Talking about stats, AI is always the top 3. That is it.

 

I've always wanted to see a passing PG to get an MVP. Nash is that. So was Kidd. But I agree that Nash's defense is an issue.

There is a dilemma here. On the one hand, you want to pick the MVP from a team with good record. There is always a suspicion on a great player with a poor team (see T-Mac with the Magic). On the other hand, the perceived value of a great player with a good team is diminished because people would say the success is due to the talent level of the team (see Kobe and Shaq in recent years).

So in the end, the MVP choice is pretty much a subjective perception. How do you measure the "value" of a player to the team objectively and say such player is the "most valuable" player?

 

Obviously the reason Nash gets more run for MVP than Kidd did is because his offensive game isn't limited to passing the ball. Nash is shooting 50.7% from the field and 42.4% from the arc, with a high FT% as well. Nash could score more, but chooses not to.

The defensive argument against Nash would hold water IMO IF it had any impact on his team. Apparently it hasn't so far. It may in the playoffs, but we won't know that at the time we pick an MVP.

I also think that with the new rules, you can't really be a defensive stopper at the PG anyway. You can be a good defensive player within a good defensive game plan, like the Rockets' guards, but without the game plan you can't stop a PG who is shooting well and utilizing picks, etc. I think this has minimized Nash's defensive woes.

Shaq has not been a dominant force like in the past. Much like Yao and Duncan, he has been somewhat limited by the zone and current defensive rules. As far as Duncan goes, the Spurs don't seem to miss him that much when he is out - they just have a lot of well-coached talent.

Nash for MVP.

 

If that comment comes from the Spurs victory over Phoenix without Duncan, that just proves the Suns are not going to be a good playoff team.

 

Kobe is a superstar know doubt. We don't know how good Penny was because he could never stay healthy. Wade was awesome last year. Look at how well the Heat were playing last year during the 2nd half of the season. They started 0-7 and made it into the second round of the playoffs. They were already going to be in the top three(top 2 considering the Pacer's problems) in the East even without Shaq because DWade is that good. Wade is the best player on the team, but know one wants to give him credit because Shaq is there now.

 

I'll tell all of you plain and simply why Nash deserves MVP and Shaq doesn't even deserved to be mentioned in the top 5.

Suns minus Nash:

0 - 5

Heat minus Shaq:

3 - 1
Not to mention on Christmas the Heat didn't pull away from the Lakers until Shaq fouled out of the game.