Perhaps you didn't see this before you posted your generic search link. I do find it fascinating that you get very passionate in your defense of Slick Willy and Barack Osama.
the article also went on to not mention some liberal would make an inane, obligatory bush-bashing remark when commenting on the article, but i guess that's the biased liberal media for you. if this weren't the D&D i'd think this was a joke but i know it's not. aside from the ludicrous "free press again" comment, should "the US is occupying Iraq" just be a little footnote at the end of every media story from now on? "michael jackson goes on trial...13 year old...settled for 20 million dollars in the past...US is occupying Iraq." i see this is a story about getting troops out, but as MM pointed out, it's a story, not an editorial, and we're not planning on staying forever or controlling their government forever. but i can understand, this story has been kinda swept under the rug. no coverage in the U.S. at all, not a talking point for damn near every political show on tv, not the subject of countless editorials and news show stories. i can't even remember, it's iraq we're in right? have we even gotten saddam or had elections over there yet? have any soldiers died? i don't know, it's never on.
IT was probably less passion about defending slick Willy than it was joy at being tossed such a soft ball by you. I can't believe you even had the gall/ignorance to post that article. Sandy Berger who was the National Security advisor who met with Ijaz. After only one meeting Berger was able to tell that Ijaz was unreliable, working for his own financial interests. As Sam has shown he definitely was. The U.S. government who had heard Ijaz' offer then made contact with the Sudaneese govt. There was no such deal on the table. The administration then tried to negotiate and followed every possible lead, but no deal was on the table. The govt. of Sudan happens to be the largest state sponsor of slavery. They were also sponsors of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Qaeda. Yet this is the government that Ijaz was trying to get sanctions lifted from. And that is the same Ijaz who now works for FOX news. I'm still baffled you tried to come back with that con job of an article by Ijaz.
Yawn. I say leave the Bush bashing to the editorials and the facts to the articles. My point was that there was a glaring omission of facts from both sides of the issue. In particular, the article promoted the WH position on Syria. It sounds lke you are scared of facts that are not pro-Bush.
You need to find a better source than Juan Cole. Mango. Are you just being anal retentive on spelling? Or do you have a point? Juan Cole is a recognized expert on the area. Nice try.
I have seen spelling variations in different sources and wouldn't waste my time arguing when spelling would be the only issue. Rather than take two minutes and investigate for yourself, you would rather attempt to insult me. <b> Go patronize somebody else. </b> Just so there isn't any misunderstanding..... <a HREF="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=patronize">Patronize</a> <i>1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor. 2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis. <b> 3. To treat in a condescending manner.</b> </i> Juan Cole is the only source that i have seen refer to the Druze/Druse as Shia/Shi'ite. Yes, they started centuries ago as a Shia offshoot, but they have gone far beyond that and religious scholars classify them as totally distinct and unique. As far as Shia/Shi'ite offshoots, the Alawite (al-Assad family are probably the most notable) were classified as Muslims a few decades ago. <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawite">Alawite</a> The Druze/Druse to be classified as Shia/Shi'ite Muslims? I don't expect to ever happen. <a HREF="http://www.druzestudies.org/druzes.html">The Druzes</a> <i>The Druzes are a Middle Eastern minority group with their formal origins in the 11th century. They are perhaps one of the most misunderstood and understudied religious sects in the world. Most Druzes live today in mountainous regions in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan. Taking all available figures into consideration, the Druze population is nearly one million with 40%-50% living in Syria, 30%-40% in Lebanon, 6%-7% in Israel, and 1%-2% in Jordan. In the U.S. there are approximately 20,000 Druzes. During the 19th and early 20th centuries Druze immigrant communities were established around the world and could be found in Australia, Canada, Europe, the Philippines, South and Central America, the United States, and West Africa. Like many other immigrants, they strive to preserve their traditions and maintain frequent contact with co-religionists. In the United States, for example, the American Druze Society (ADS) has organized annual conventions since 1946 and, more recently, established its main center in Eagle Rock, California. In fact, Southern California is home of the largest concentration of Druzes in the U.S. Druze Origins: 1000 Years of History Historians trace Druze origins to 11th century Fatimid Cairo where they began as an Islamic reform movement. The establishment of this reform movement and doctrine revolves primarily around several individuals, two of whom are Hakim and Hamza. A third individual, named Darazi, is thought to be responsible for undermining the doctrine and ironically lending his name to the sect itself. Hakim was the 6th Fatimid Caliph who became the head of the Islamic Fatimid state in 996 at the age of eleven. Although Hakim’s attitude towards the emerging reform movement that later became known as ‘Druze’ is not fully discernible from available sources, he is regarded within the Druze manuscripts as the founding father of Druzism and the source of its strict unitarianism. Among the reforms he introduced were resolutions to (1) abolish slavery, (2) prohibit polygamy, and (3) implement a form of separation of church and state. While these reforms did not become part of orthodox Islam, the Druzes, as well as other Islamic sectarian movements, adopted them. The connection between Hakim and the Druzes is best substantiated through the religious writings of Hamza, the second person associated with the Druze faith, who was appointed as a religious leader by Hakim. He is considered the main author behind most of the original Druze manuscripts. After a period of teaching philosophy and religion, Hamza began to organize followers, train missionaries, and write a religious doctrine. Prospective adherents were requested to pledge their loyalty to a form of strict unitarianism (Tawhid), a reform doctrine with a new interpretation of some aspects of Islam and monotheism in general. The resistance of the medieval populace to such interpretation, however, posed a grave danger for Hamza and his associates. One of Hamza’s subordinates, Darazi, seized the opportunity to take political control of the movement and proclaimed himself “Guide of guides” which was meant to elevate him over Hamza. More importantly, Darazi began to falsify the doctrine of Tawhid by altering a number of Hamza’s writings. Darazi was ultimately executed by Hakim in 1019. Nonetheless, some of Darazi’s teachings were attributed to the Druzes by his followers, referred to as “Darazis.” Ironically, a few medieval chroniclers of the time not only failed to make the distinction between Druzes and Darazis but attributed Darazi’s doctrine to the followers of Hamza and argued that Hakim supported Darazi’s ideas. Other historians have reported that it was Hamza who was subordinate to Darazi, and still others have referred to Hamza and Darazi as the same person: Hamza al-Darazi. As a consequence, the name “Druze” became synonymous with the reform movement. Despite the ironic and misleading origins of the sect’s name, the title “Druze” never occurs in the Druze manuscripts of the 11th century. After the execution of Darazi and his collaborators, Hamza continued his preaching activities for two more years. Among Druzes today, Darazi is known as a heretic and the uttering of his name constitutes the use of profanity. Druze communities in the Middle East Druze Society: Dualistic Structure Although the structure of the Druze society helps unite them into a socially cohesive community, it also divides them into two main classes: “the initiated” known in Arabic as ‘uqqal, literally “wise,” who are familiar with the religious teachings; and “the uninitiated” known as juhhal, or literally “ignorant” who are not initiated in the Druze doctrine. Only those members of the community who demonstrate piety and devotion and who have withstood a lengthy process of candidacy are initiated into the teachings of the Druze faith. Women may also be initiated in the Druze doctrine. The Druze tradition considers women to be more spiritually prepared than men to enter such circles because they are considered less likely to be exposed to deviant or immoral practices such as murder and adultery. The initiated male and female members of the Druze community are easily identified by their dark clothes and white head covers. They meet in the Druze house of worship called khalwa or place of solitude for recitation of the religious doctrine and other social and general community discussions. The initiated are further subdivided into a number of categories based on their level of advancement in religious knowledge. One group receives its status as the result of being considered the most knowledgeable and devout of their community. Known as ajaweed, or “the good,” these individuals occupy the most honored position in Druze society. Whenever issues concerning the conduct of adherents of the sect arise, the opinions of this religious elite are highly regarded. Other members of the community listen when the ajaweed speak, act according to their directives, and stand respectfully when they walk away. The ajaweed not only provide exclusive authority on Druze religious doctrine, they also prescribe the accepted cultural norms of the community, shaping its character and reinforcing the members’ interactions within their families, villages, and with the rest of the world. Uninitiated Druzes comprise the majority of the society. Though they are not familiar with the specifics of the Druze religious doctrine, their behavior is expected to conform with certain prescriptions, both spiritual (e.g. fealty to God and His prophets) and moral (e.g. respect for elders and honor for women). Those who are uninitiated may seek initiation at any stage of their lives, but their acceptance in the ranks of the initiated is based on their moral character and their conduct in the Druze community. The interaction between the initiated and uninitiated provides a dualistic communal structure and facilitates the cohesiveness and unity of the Druze community in times of peace as well as war by shaping the social and political behavior of members of the Druze society. In this dualistic setting, religious leadership is generally provided by the initiated and political and military leadership is often exercised by the uninitiated. The initiated prescribe and model the accepted standards for the community while the uninitiated draw strength from, as well as provide protection for, the initiated and the way of life, beliefs, and values they represent. Druzes also exhibit what may be called “familial dualism” or dualism rooted in family relations. Druze families often form two competing factions behind two of the largest families or even behind two brothers or cousins within the same family. Each faction negotiates its own interests on behalf of the community, which generally benefits both sides. In Druze society, as in Middle Eastern culture in general, the priority of the family over the individual is predominant. Druzes build their houses when possible on land adjacent to their parents, and extended families usually remain in close proximity to one another. Decisions are often made in consultation with other members of the family on matters such as whether to buy a motorcycle, car, or truck, and, in previous centuries, whether to buy a horse, donkey, or camel. The more important the decision, the greater the number of family members involved in the decision-making process. Druze Beliefs: Profoundly Monotheistic Most monotheists believe in exoteric or literal meanings of their scriptures while some speak of esoteric or inner meanings. The mystical tradition in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity also attempts esoteric reading or interpretation of the scriptures. Druzes believe that both the Bible and the Qur’an have esoteric meanings in addition to the exoteric or literal ones. Moreover, Druzes also believe that above these two levels of meaning there is “the esoteric of the esoteric.” In Druze faith, there are prophets, helpers, and luminaries. Each fulfills a different function in achieving complete spirituality. For example, Druzes venerate the messages of prophets in the Judaeo-Christian and Islamic traditions, who preached the word of God in their respective lifetimes. Each prophet, according to Druzes, preached only a partial truth since humanity was not yet ready to receive the entire truth. However, underneath the exoteric truth lay the esoteric message. For each of these prophets, God provided a helper or assistant to propagate the doctrine of strict unitarianism and to interpret the esoteric nature of the message. For each period, Druzes argue there were also luminaries who taught these three levels of interpretations. The Druze doctrine contains rich examples outlining specific moral lessons and rules of individual and communal conduct that are found in approximately thirty manuscripts. Most scholars have mistakenly referred to only one single manuscript, The Epistles of Wisdom, as embodying the complete Druze scriptures. Some have included an additional two to three manuscripts. This writer has documented 23 manuscripts showing the impact and importance of each on Druze identity. For nearly 1,000 years, Druzes have preserved their beliefs and traditions as outlined in the manuscripts written between 1017-1043. Their doctrine and dualistic structure have persisted despite the changes that their community has undergone. </i> <hr color=green> <a HREF="http://www.i-cias.com/e.o/druze.htm">Druze</a> <i>Religion and group of people with somewhere between 350,000 (estimate of Western scholars) and 900,000 (figures as presented by the Druze) members (our estimates put it at around 600,000 in the Middle East and nearly 700,000 all over the world), living in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan, often in mountainous regions. There are also important Druze communities abroad, living in Europe and USA.<b> While the Druze are not regarded as Muslims by other Muslims, they regard themselves as Muslims as well as carriers of the core of this religion. The origin of Druze is to a large extent from a group of Shi'is, the Isma'ilis, but they have diverged much, and the Koran does not seem to be a part of their religion.</b> The Druze call themselves muwahhidun, 'monotheists'. THEOLOGY The theology of Druze religion is called hikma and its main theme is that God incarnated himself in the Fatimid caliph al-Hakim, who disappeared in 1021. While most Muslims believe he died in 1021, the Druze disagree and believe that al-Hakim is awaiting to return to the world in order to bring a new golden age to true believers. Druze believe in one God and claim that the qualities of God cannot be understood or defined by humans. Al-Hakim is worshiped in Druze religion, he is called 'Our Lord' and his cruelties and eccentricities are all interpreted symbolically. But while God incarnated himself in al-Hakim in his unity, other aspects of God can be incarnated in other human beings. These aspects are represented with 5 superior ministers. Under the ministers one finds three other groups: functionaries, preachers, and heads of communities. The knowledge of this hierarchal system is the highest knowledge in the Druze religion. Frequently we hear from sources about a calf in Druze religion. It is believed that the calf is a central symbol which represents the negative forces in the world. The moral system of Druze religion consists of seven principles: 1. love of truth 2. take care of one another 3. renounce all other religions 4. avoid the demon (the calf?) and all wrongdoers 5. accept divine unity in humanity 6. accept all of al-Hakim's acts 7. act in total accordance to al-Hakim's will Central in the the Druze world system is the belief in reincarnation, where all souls are reborn as humans, good as well as bad. Good people have a more fortunate rebirth than bad people. Behind this system is the belief that man cannot reach perfection and unite with God. Hell and heaven in this world view differ from most other Middle Eastern religions, and bear clear resemblances with Gnostic philosophy and religion, as heaven is only spiritual, where man stops being man and is saved from more rebirths. Hell is just as spiritual and is the distance from, and the longing to, unity with God which goes on in life time after life time for the bad. MEANING OF THE DRUZE STAR The Druze star symbolizes the five wise superior ministers, each with his quality. Green is for "the mind", 'al-'akl, which is necessary for understanding the truth. Red is for "the soul", 'an-nafs. Yellow is for "the word", 'al-kalima, which is the purest form of expression of the truth. Blue, 'as-sabik is for the mental power of the will. White, 'al-tali, is the realization of Blue, where its power has been materialized in the world of matter. ORGANIZATION OF THE DRUZE COMMUNITY The hikma is only known to an elite of religiously trained men, the uqqal. Most Druze know only parts of their religion's theology, and they are referred to as juhhal, 'ignorants'. One out of 50 members of the uqqal, reach as high as perfection, and are called 'ajawid, 'noble', and work as the real leaders of the Druze religion. The uqqal take care of the religion for the juhhal, and they alone attend the religious meetings taking place at the night between Thursday and Friday, in ordinary buildings in the outskirts of Druze villages. For the Druze, the centre of religious activities is located to the mountainous region called Jabalu d-Duruz in Syria.<b> The juhhal perform few of the typical Muslim rituals, prayer is not performed in mosques, fast is not performed during the Muslim month of Ramadan, and there are no obligations of performing the hajj, Muslim pilgrimage.</b> LIFE STYLES The Druze follow a life style of isolation where no conversion is allowed, neither out of, or into, the religion. When Druze live among people of other religions, they try to blend in, in order to protect their religion and their own safety. They can pray as Muslims, or as Christians, depending on where they are. This system is apparently changing in modern times, where more security has allowed Druze to be more open about their religious belonging. Druze have earlier been reported to practice polygamy. But there is no evidence of such a practice among Druze today. Druze abstain from wine and tobacco. There are clear prohibitions against any practice that could involve profanity of the religion. Druze have a strong community feeling, where they identify themselves as related even across borders of countries. There are sources suggesting that the Druze was a people of their own even before conversion to the faith al-Hakim. Unsubstantiated theories point in direction of the Druze being descendants of Persian colonists, while another theory says they are descendants of Christians from the time of the crusades. The latter is not very likely, due to the fact that the first crusade came about 80 years after al-Hakim's disappearance. Despite their practice of blending with dominant groups in order to avoid persecution, the Druze have had a history of brave resistance to occupying powers, and they have at times enjoyed more freedom than most other groups living in the Levant. </i> <hr color=green> .....and another link if somebody is still interested. <a HREF="http://www.answers.com/topic/druze">Druze</a>
What you quoted, glynch, was inaccurate. Cole, in your post, says that the civil war took place in the '60's. I visited Beirut in 1965, and at that time it was called the "Paris of the Middle East." It was the premier financial center of the region, and looked upon by other countries in the Middle East with envy. The civil war started in the mid '70's, in large part because the influx of Palestinians from Israel after the '67 war, and from Jordan after "Black September," caused their numbers to more than triple, destabilizing the country, and groups within them launched attacks against Israel, leading to the first Israeli invasion. (IMO) As for the Druze, does this sound like the Shia branch (or the Sunni)? the Druze religion is a fervent belief in human-only reincarnation for all the members of the community. The Druze consider the Old Testament prophets, as well as Jesus and Muhammad, to be true prophets. They also believe in the wisdom of classical Greek philosophers such as Plato. Druze women can opt to wear a mandîl or transparent loose white veil, especially in the presence of religious figures. They are considered equal to men in all aspects, and are thought to be spiritually more suited to becoming members of the uqqal than men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze Look at the excellent references from Mango, including the 3rd link provided, and it points out just how different the Druze are. It's facinating to me how little we know of the religion, because, for a thousand years, the Druze have made secrecy of their tenets one of the foundations of their beliefs. Just looking at Mango's sources, and the one I used, points that out clearly, with all of them disagreeing on one aspect of the Druze religion, or another. Cole would seem to be the least accurate of any of the sources I read, glynch. It is extremely difficult for a Druze to learn the hidden parts of their faith. All in all, the Druze are unique, and have worked successfully to keep themselves that way. As for the news out of Lebanon, I hope that the people of Lebanon can attain their freedom from Syrian domination. Although Syria has been part and parcel of Lebanon's history, the majority clearly want to run their own affairs. I hope they are successful, although I'll believe that the Syrians are truly leaving when I see it. They have made the same promise many times in the past. Oh, and... Keep D&D Civil!!
A little followup, and it's just what I expected. From the Times: March 4, 2005 Syria Is Expected to Announce Partial Troop Pullout in Lebanon By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 12:35 p.m. ET BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- Syrian President Bashar Assad is expected to announce a pullback of troops to eastern Lebanon, near the Syrian border, but not a full withdrawal in an upcoming parliament speech, the Lebanese defense minister said Friday. Such a step would fall short of intensifying U.S. and Arab demands for a complete removal of Syria's 15,000 forces from Lebanon, where Damascus has held sway for more than a decade. President Bush said he wants all Syrian forces out by May, when Lebanon holds parliamentary elections -- stepping up previous calls in which he set no deadline. ``I don't mean just the troops out of Lebanon, I mean all of them out of Lebanon, particularly the secret service out of Lebanon -- the intelligence services,'' he told the New York Post in an interview published Friday. ``This is nonnegotiable. It is time to get out,'' he said. ``I don't think you can have fair elections with Syrian troops there.'' Lebanese Defense Minister Abdul-Rahim Murad suggested Syria wants to keep some troops in the country on a long-term basis, saying a complete removal of the troops would have to be negotiated between Syria and Lebanon's governments -- as called for in an 1989 agreement. Under the Taif Accord, he said, ``the governments of Lebanon and Syria will meet to discuss the number of troops required to stay and outline the areas where they would be stationed until the (Arab-Israeli) issue is settled.'' In the speech to the People's Assembly in Damascus, ``we expect President Assad to announce a redeployment to the Bekaa region'' in eastern Lebanon, Murad, a member of the pro-Syrian government in Beirut, told The Associated Press. He answered ``No'' when asked whether the redeployment meant a full withdrawal. It was not clear whether Assad would set a date for the pullback in the speech, announced by the Syrian state news agency. But a commitment from the president before the People's Assembly would strengthen promises by Syrian officials last month that Damascus would carry out the redeployment. Syria has redeployed its troops toward the border several times since 2000, and each time some Syrian troops have left Lebanon completely. Syrian Information Minister Mahdi Dakhlallah said last month if there was a new redeployment, some troops would return to Syria. But that may not be enough for Arab governments, which have grown increasingly impatient with Syrian reluctance to order a withdrawal outright. Syria has so far resisted Arab pressure to withdraw, saying in behind-the-scenes diplomacy in recent days that it wants to keep 3,000 troops and early-warning stations in Lebanon, according to an Arab diplomat in Cairo, Egypt. The Syrian army already operates radar stations in Dahr el-Baidar, on mountain tops bordering Syria. Israeli warplanes have attacked the sites in the past. Syria's ambassador to the United States said his nation's presence inside Lebanon is not likely to end suddenly. ``We are going to leave Lebanon. But we will not do this in a way that is chaotic. We will not create a vacuum,'' Imad Moustapha told The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer in an interview Thursday. Some people in Cleveland with Lebanese roots said they planned to protest Moustapha's remarks Friday. Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah told Assad in talks Thursday that his country wants Syria to start soon on a complete pullout from Lebanon and Saudi leaders warned the Syrian leader that, if not, their relations will suffer, a Saudi offical said on condition of anonymity. Assad replied only that he would consider a partial withdrawal in the coming weeks, the official said. Syria's official news agency SANA on Friday dismissed the Saudi official's account of the meeting, saying it lacked credibility. ``The failure to mention the name of the Saudi official points to a lack of credibility of the report's content,'' SANA said. It noted an official Saudi statement saying the talks were ``constructive and fruitful'' and that the two countries discussed ways to expand bilateral cooperation. SANA also said late Thursday that ``points of view were identical'' in the talks. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw also ruled out any Western military action against Syria but said there had been informal discussions in the United Nations Security Council about deploying peacekeeping forces in Lebanon to cover the withdrawal of Syrian troops. ``There are already some U.N. peacekeeping forces in the south of Lebanon. It is possible that as part of a phased withdrawal from the Lebanon by Syria -- it would have to be swift, but obviously phased so you don't leave a mess -- there could be some more peacekeeping troops,'' Straw said in an interview with British Broadcasting Corp. radio. ``I mean, that has been talked about but in an informal, not a formal, way'' in the Security Council, Straw said. Pressure on Syria to withdraw its troops has increased since the Feb. 14 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a killing that plunged Lebanon into political turmoil and brought Syria widespread condemnation. Domestic calls in Lebanon -- thousands of people have demonstrated in recent days in Beirut against Syria and forced the pro-Syrian Lebanese government to step down, although it remains a caretaker government. International demands led by Bush, France's Jacques Chirac and even Russia, Syria's close friend, for Syria to leave Lebanon also have dramatically increased. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/int...&en=5ffaaa8384bbbf4d&ei=5094&partner=homepage What the report fails to mention is that Syria's occupation in Lebanon is a source of revenue, as well as influence and part of a "buffer" against Israel. Besides the money flowing to Damascus through corruption, the worst thing the Syrians do in Lebanon is provide "safe havens" for those groups who conduct terrorist acts against Israel... helping Iran, as well as others, to funnel support for those groups. In many ways, IMO, Syria was/is a far worse sponser of terrorism than Saddam's Iraq ever was against Israel. Keep D&D Civil!!
