It's because we are scoring so much. Great defense requires intnesity. When youa re up by 10-15 it is hared to maintain that intensity.
That is what I thought as well. PS. If the concensus is that the "pay our respect" part of the header is not good, can the thread starter give the moderatorts power then to change it? Change it to something...... 1. I heart JVG 2. Kudos to JVG thread. 3. JVG is the best thing since sliced bread. 4. JVG; we hail thee! 5. JVG; You are my sunshine. 6. I am giddy for Gundy! 7. JVG appreciation thread.
Crikey! I've never blamed him for changing I'm going out of my way to compliment him for changing. The problem I see with your POV is that arguing that JVG has never changed only the players around him. If that was the case then last year's Rox should've been playing a style better suited to the skills of those players rather than playing like the Knicks of the late 90's since all along JVG has had the genius to scheme to the strengths of those players. The other problem is you totally deny that people have tendencies and the best way to tell somebody's tendencies is based upon their histories. Up to this point everything about his tendencies has been to play strong D and plodding offense. Even with explosively offensive players like Francis, Mobley and Sprewell at his disposal. Also as Rivaldo noted in his last post according to TMac JVG has changed his style. Now its possible that T-Mac could be lying or shading the truth to stoke his own ego but I find it more likely that he had a few tet a tets with JVG and JVG told mim "Tracy, I see your point so lets try running some sets that will free you up more and make the offense more fluid." No offense but your view strikes me as nearly a messianic view of JVG. He is infalliable and it is only the players responsible for any failings. As I've said repeatedly I give JVG immense credit for being able to see what was being done before doesn't work and to change what he's doing to make it work. That's not an easy thing for most people to do and its to his credit he has.
Sishir Chang, please tell me what's the "style better suited to the skills of those players" last year? What "style" would that be? Huh? Like fast-paced Orlando? Like the ISO-Rudy/Francis offense for four years? What? Do remember, at all, why JVG was brought to this team last year in the first place? Do you remember why? JVG was caught in catch-22. It didn't matter if he gave the green light to Francis. It didn't matter if he used a more controlled offense. Either way, the common denominator was the same: Francis. It was a wash! What I'm saying is this. You hold it against him for playing a perceived style (NY ball) at the start of the season (and last year too). But you hold it against him for the wrong reasons. It wasn't a "NY style." Defense is defense, no matter what team you are on. What the problem was, was that we weren't geting *any* consistent production from any of our stars. That's not a "NY style." That's just plain struggling to get any offense going. All for different reasons....Yao's fouls/fronting issues, Ward's slowness, Lue's limited ability, TMac defering.... Last year was for other reasons. JVG was brough in because SF and Mobley needed discipline at that time.
Considering that the JVG style of play, which did strongly resemble the style of the late 90's Knicks, only produced 2 more wins over a season where the coach left with a quarter of the season. I would say that JVG style wasn't much more successful than previous year of Rudy ISO and caused a lot more unhappiness on the part of players. IMO JVG and the Rox would've been better served by playing strong D but mixing it up more on O with a few more iso and also allowing Yao to roam a little more than plant in the paint, like he's doing now. JVG need not let Francis take over the game but he also didn't need to keep him and Yao locked down into roles that didn't necessarily suit him. As for the begining of the season right the players weren't executing but you have to look at what kind of plays were being called and overall how the game was going. It looks to me like the Rox of the first quarter of this season were playing pretty much like the Rox of last year and the Knicks of the late 90's. You're right if you have a team like the Knicks of the late 90's or the Miami Heat of the late 90's that style works but it wasn't working for the Rox of 2004 - 2005. While ultimately players must execute its harder to execute a game plan that doesn't suit ones natural strength. To JVG's credit he's recognized this and has adjusted. I mean I'm praising JVG but I'm not going to worship, if he brings us two championships maybe, him. OTOH you seem to think he's infalliable and its only a matter of the team understanding the mysteries of his deep mind rather than that maybe JVG understanding what his team does well and does bad.
Winning cures everything, or does it...i suspect the majority of people here, like I, wanted his arse gone...But now that there's starting to be some chemistry, and wins, I can defer the hating on JVG until we go deep into the playoffs...
Well, in retrospect it's easy to just say, "We shouldn't have gone into Yao as much." But how do you know without trying? If those post plays would have been *more* effective you wouldn't be complaining so much about him playing "ugly NY ball (ugly yes, NY no)" because the ball would have been going into the NET more often than not. If you want to call those JVG "mistakes," so be it (in reference to your infallible comment). They had to be tried. And I also think all the things we learned about Yao's game (by forcing it to him) will pay-off later. So, we win by learning, and Yao wins by getting more valuable post experience; even though it wasn't working well at the beginning of this year. As far as giving Francis more ISOs. No...no wayyyy....sorry. I don't buy that. He had his chance for four years. He was scoring 21ppg under Rudy. With JVG, Francis dropped to 16ppg. Upping his touches/scoring to 18.5ppg wouldn't have made much difference. Not anything substantial. Not in a team sense anyways....because the more shots he gets the more he takes away from other players. That's the thing. You'll never understand how much negative effective Francis has on the team concept...well, maybe in a few years you will. Francis getting more points does not necessarily make up for the negative effect he has on the team. He'll actually takes harder shots and overlooks easy passes to other players. Sometimes they go in, most of the time not. Neverthesless, that wasn't the best way to build a team. A team that plays like a single unit. I'm not sure he'll ever get it. What about 4 championships?
you do mean 180 turnaround right? bc if the team did a 360 turnaround they will be right where they started...
noize said... 'He's not the best coach in the world, but he is one with a big heart, where the players believed in him and he believed in his players." Reminds me of how I felt about Rudy T during the glory years. We may not be very far away, thanks to CD, JVG, Tracey Mac's unselfish superstar play, Yao's maturing process, bobbie sura's guts, Wesley and Barry's sauve vet leadership, Juwon Howard's hunger for a ring, Dekembe M's attitude, Les Alexander's balls, and stevie franchises refusal to grow up.
To me it is about the personnel changes, but when the team is doing well the coach does get the credit. I don't like JVG, but I am happy for him. Rudy took a lot of crap that I thought was bogus, but heck the rule changes practically legislated his offense into oblivion and left us with players that didn't suit the current version of the game. But I hated watching the Rockets play for the last two years, and even when we were 6-11 I was less pained this year. Sura, Wesley, Barry and the emergence of Howard and Padgett has just been a breath of fresh air - and when T-Mac or Yao are really on, this team plays some beautiful ball. So kudos to JVG and CD and to T-Mac, Yao and everyone else. But I still think T-Mac and Yao being surrounded by smarter players has given us a different look at both of them. I still think that's the best news that will emerge from this season, but I think JVG has moved us considerably more toward contender status than anything he did last year. No big deal really, so let the praise flow. I must give JVG props from saying in the Chron today that Yao's gone from the most overrated player in the NBA to probably the most underrated. I'd just like him to credit the players more, he just always makes me think he's lecturing the media and the fans.
Just wanted to point out that Rudy's "clear-out" isos would never win a championship if it was used exclusively or as much as he did. There has to be some resemblance of teamwork and that was lacking in his recent team(s); w/a lot of the blame going to Francis. In LA, well...that was just more of the same old Rudy; a lot of ISO. For us, it wasn't that Rudy going to his best player was a bad idea....that's fine. It was that his extreme iso-offense plus an extreme ISO PG was over-kill! It was overused way too much! It would have never evolved into a team. In the past....Hakeem, although used in isloations, was capable of carrying a team but also sharing the ball. HE changed his mentality and started to trust his teammates. That's when the team took off. So, the "current version of the game" in reality is just the same a any year. In the end, the TEAM wins. Just look at the Pistons, Lakers, Spurs, Bulls....they always played as a unit. Regardless of the *star* talent, regardless of what *rule* changes occured. All teams need their stars. But they didn't just clear-out 90% of the time. I hated that offense. The league instituted rules that restircted "clear-outs" because it was sooooo damn predictable and boring. It was dumbing down the game and was creating *me-me-individuals as stars* rather than *teams + stars.* So, for that I'm glad the league changed the rules. Too bad for Rudy. It was the only offense he knew how to coach; i.e. his "strong-point," for lack of a better word(s).
DavidS, fair enough. And I always enjoy your posts. But I do disagree with the idea that Rudy's isos didn't include ball movement (I know you never said that) and after rewatching game 7 against the Knicks and more significantly game 4 vs. Orlando in '95 I was stunned. I honestly think Rudy got a pretty raw deal in terms of reputation based on the Barkley/Dream combo, and the lack of brains in the SF/Cat show. In terms of eras, I also disagree: the center position has never been so disproportianately punished as it is now when guards can't even touch their man with two hands. And yes I agree with your basic premise: Rudy, as a player, definitely believed a good/great player had to be able to take his man. As a coach I think it carried over. Hence the isos. As you said, SF as a pg made it overkill, but the premise was that Stevie on the perimeter should have theoretically been able to produce easy baskets. It didn't happen enough. But I was all for giving SF a chance to grow 2 years ago, most of us were, but zones just fried him. So all I'm saying is coaching is important, but I don't believe JVG could have done any better with last year's team, and I also believe Rudy possibly could have done better. This year - I think JVG has taken a step back, and noticed what we all have. I'm not knocking him at all - but I think he is adjusting. But I believe Rudy would have too. Sooo... my jury's still out on JVG. But again he deserves the credit too: being a head coach must be terrible, so I am happy for him.
Props should go to below two posters. See trhough the mist in the "Fire JVG" thread Fengwu>>>I was frustrated too. But it was because our shots were not falling down. How is this the worst offense we have seen in ages? Is it even bad basketball? Balls were shared and moved but the shots did not fall down. That is just tough luck. You have to take the highs with the lows in this league. We scrapily found a way to win and stay on course to reverse our current demise. We husled. We played smart for the most time. We played above average defense. Some nights you win ugly and we used that line Saturday night. You guys are begining to whine like thanksgiving turkey. Did some of you even watch the match/game? Must you whine for everything? Absolutely nobody's shot was falling save for Bowen early. But mama said that there will be days like this - I'd take days like this with a healthy win. We need to calm down with all this unnecessary negativity. Hell is not coming to earth (at least not yet). This thing will be turned around soon. You can just see it and feel it if you remove the gloom and doom glasses from your face. Enough of the whining already. ¡¨CLOVE¡¨ You won't make anyone believers. Most people supporting JVG is not saying JVG's system is destined to work. He just got done with D, which I'm sure you'd agree is more important than offense. I personally find it ridiculous you guys are giving up on him this early. If by ASG, we are still not winning, I'll be the first one to call for a coaching change. In fact, if we are not a 15-15 after first 30 games, I will start another thread about firing JVG. But it won't be because you made anyone a believer.
