Fla Sec of State tells counties to justify a recount -- You try it

Where do you see any Republicans on here saying they have something against that?

The only thing I would want to clarify is what is going to be considered a vote. Are we going to only count the votes that have been punched, or will simple indentations be counted as "votes"? I'd want to have a uniform standard of what did or didn't count as a vote throughout the state.

I'd also want to include Oregon, New Mexico, Iowa and Wisconsin since the votes were also very close in those states, too.

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

Separated at birth?

Katherine Harris...



...and Fred Gwynne?

 

Please don't insult Fred Gwynne.

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Houston Sports Board
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Isn't it the late Fred Gwynne?


Mango

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I finally have figured this counting and recounting business out.

All of the counts that show Bush winning Florida are wrong and the only correct count will have Gore winning.


Mango

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He's not late, he's not coming at all. Gwynne died in 1993 of pancreatic cancer. "My Cousin Vinny" was his last film.

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Mango,

wouldn't Gore look like a dork... if he weren't leading in the popular vote across the entire country. I'd even call for him to retract (god I'm almost at that point now).

Aren't you guys impressed that any criticisms that you have of Gore (or the lump demos) are constantly shot down? I mean, seriously... it's getting pretty ridiculous.

Then again, this criticism of "only the demo counties are being recounted" was always silly:

1) most people would have called for Gore's head if he asked for a statewide recount earlier (before the week of boredom). He also called for recounts in 4 counties in which Florida democrats shouted fraud...

2) It was and always has been Bush's right/priority to call for a recount.

3) It was and always has been Bush's right/priority to call for a recount. Oh wait, you already knew that.

4) The political parties have to pick up the bill for the counties that they call for recounts in (you didn't think Floridians were going to pay for that did you?). Yeah, demos are going to pay for republican recounts and vice versa. Puleez.

What do I expect from the party that brought the stupid phrase "special rights" to American politics.

<font size="-2" color="336666" face="Verdana">
(sorry if I don't respond for a while).</font>

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One of the definitions for late is "deceased".


Mango

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Hey, Ralph Nader apparently doesn't support the hand recount in the four Florida counties, and this is the man who has draped himself in the rights of the people for a good long while AND a man who has crusaded against machines at many times (but apparently not ballot-counting machines. Those are apparently okay with him).

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I know, that's a old Seinfeld or some comedian joke. (I'm pretty sure it's Seinfeld). Why do they call dead people late? They aren't late, they aren't coming at all. Just trying to inject a little moldy humor into the discussion.


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mrpaige,

I know when TheFreak is having fun, but your humor is still novel to me.

--------------------------------------------

Achebe,


Now that somebody has recognized me, please respond to this point that I have mentioned several times.

From
http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html

"............Daley said Gore's team in Florida would request a "hand count" of presidential ballots in four Florida counties: Volusia, Broward, Dade and Palm Beach, where voters have complained that the county's ballot design was confusing and netted Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan hundreds, perhaps thousands, of votes intended for Gore.

Daley also said he would "be working with voters from Florida to support a legal action to demand some redress for the disenfranchisement of more than 20,000 voters in the state of Florida." The former Commerce Secretary repeated allegations voiced by a Florida Democratic congressman that slightly more than 19,000 ballots were disqualified in Palm Beach because baffled voters cast votes for two presidential candidates.

"If the will of the people is to prevail, Al Gore should be awarded a victory in Florida and should be the next president of the United States," Daley said.


I don't understand the hue and cry about supposed illegal butterfly ballots and other issues under Florida election law, while at the same time Daley wanted redress for ballots with multiple punches which is also against Florida election law. If Daley and Gore wanted to invoke election law, why just the selective enforcement of it? I already know the part about winning, but they have taken contradictory positions in the enforcement of electtion law.


Mango

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mrpaige,
Look, I understand all about why we have rules. I'm not calling for anarchy or anything. I'm calling for some sort of justice for those voices that will not be heard. I'm all for changing the rules so that this never happens again because it is obvious that we have some major flaws in our voting system. It never really mattered before because no race has ever been this close.

I'm not being a Gore cheerleader here. I don't consider myself to be of any party. I vote for whom I most agree with. It just so happens that I consider Gore the lesser of 2 evils. I'm a huge Clinton fan but that doesn't mean that automatically choose Gore for that reason. In fact, had McCain made it past Bush I may have voted for him. He's a good guy. Bush is not. Bush has proven nothing as far as his ability to lead this country. I take solice in knowing that no one person can cripple this country. It will be a lame-duck 4 years no matter who wins.

In my opinion, they should hand-count the entire state of Florida. Not only will the count be more accurate and all valid votes get counted, but it will be so much of a hassle that this will ensure that the laws are changed to better address this type of situation in the future. I refuse to accept that hand counts are less accurate. We all know that the machine has limitations. There are votes that are valid that are not getting counted because of that damn peice of paper that didn't properly detach itself from the ballot. (Yes I know what it's called but I'm sick of hearing its over-use!) In the past this problem always got swept under the rug, usually because the elections were never close enough for it to matter. They saw the warning signs and chose to ignore them.

All I'm saying is that it is a shame to have an election decided by less than a .05% margin. That is the technicality that I speak of. It would be more fair to split the electorial votes. There is no winner in Florida so why should either party get all 25 votes. (Yeah I know, "it is the law, that's the rules...") When an election is this close and this important, then they damn well better make sure that every single valid vote gets counted. That is not happening here and that is a problem.

 

Of course, there is apparently some reason to worry. In Volusia County, several ballots have miraculously "appeared" They did a count of ballots before the hand count and got so many, once the hand counts were finished, they had many more ballots than before. And nobody knows why. So, are all these counts valid and accurate? Who knows, there really isn't time to go back and search the records to see how many ballots there should be and call all those people to ask who they voted for in order to get the most accurate count (and there's always the chance that people wouldn't tell the truth. There may well be people who voted for Buchannan or Nader or Gore or Bush who regret that and would now say they voted for a different candidate if asked).

There has to be respect for the rules and the law. If that means that some votes don't get counted, then that's what it means. You can't just throw away the rules and the laws because the vote ended up being close. I'm sure there are many other rules we'd like to ignore. Personally, I forgot about reregistering, I think they should have same day registration in Texas. I was disenfranchised because they don't. Shouldn't my vote count? In a perfect world, yes. But under the rules and laws, it doesn't. Should we throw away the rules because I wasn't allowed to register to vote late? I knew the rules going in, but I don't so much like the rules now. And since my vote didn't happen, one candidate has fewer votes than he should have.

And I assume there are a good many people who didn't vote on election day who would like to do so now that we know it's a close race. Why should we be disenfrachised? Why should our votes not count just because the rules and laws say we have to register by a certain time and vote by a certain time? This is a Republic after all. Shouldn't we all have a voice in who gets to run our country? Who cares about the law, I and many others were disenfranchised!

Everything is about the law. We have to follow the law. We don't get to pick and choose which laws we will follow. If you are unconcerned with doing away with the rule of law, then I expect you to not press charges when I come over and steal your car later tonight.

Don't like the law? Change it for next time.

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

And, by the way, since "Justice" is the result of the rule of law, you don't want justice, you want justice overturned. You want what you deem to be "fairness". It's not the same thing. And fairness is in the eye of the beholder.

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Houston Sports Board
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OH MY GOD...FREAK USED A SMILIE!!!

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