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"The United States is a nation dedicated to religious tolerance and freedom" ~ Bush

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Feb 10, 2005.

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  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    White House Seeks Ban on Religious Tea

    WASHINGTON - The Bush administration asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to block a New Mexico church from using hallucinogenic tea that the government contends is illegal and potentially dangerous.

    The appeal from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales argues that a lower court was wrong to allow the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal to import and use the hoasca tea as part of its religious services.

    "The court's decision has mandated that the federal government open the nation's borders to the importation, circulation and usage of a mind-altering hallucinogen and threatens to inflict irreparable harm on international cooperation in combating transnational narcotics trafficking," the filing states.

    The church, which has about 140 members in the United States and 8,000 worldwide, said the herbal brew is a central sacrament in its religious practice, which is a blend of Christian beliefs and traditions rooted in the Amazon basin.

    The group has won several rounds at the lower courts, most recently at the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in November.

    In December, the Supreme Court lifted a temporary stay that allowed the church to immediately use the tea after its court victories. The Justice Department (news - web sites) had argued they should be blocked from doing so until it filed a formal appeal, which it did Thursday.

    If the high court agrees to hear the case, it won't be heard until next term.

    The church's U.S. operations are based in Santa Fe, N.M.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
    tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=703&e=10&u=/ap/20050210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/scotus_religious_tea
     
    #1 mc mark, Feb 10, 2005
  2. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    yeah, ok. let's allow satanists to perform ritual sacrifices. let's let cannibals to eat human flesh because its their religion. you're talking about mind altering drugs. i'm not even for the WoD, but its stupid to chastise the administration for supporting the laws the legislature passes. polygamy anyone?
     
    #2 HayesStreet, Feb 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2005
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'm up for some voodoo. Anyone have pieces of hair they'd like to share?
     
    #3 Invisible Fan, Feb 10, 2005
  4. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    What isn't mind altering?
     
    #4 MR. MEOWGI, Feb 10, 2005
  5. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    Who is not?
     
    #5 VooDooPope, Feb 11, 2005
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    what's your point? that this tea is the same as beer? its not and you're being silly if that's your point.
     
    #6 HayesStreet, Feb 11, 2005
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Law is settled on this, I believe. I don't remember studying this in law school...but I remember studying it in political science in college. It was the case involving Native American tribes using peyote in religious ceremony.

    The law applies evenly. It wasn't written to discriminate against anyone of any religious background. If it's illegal to use a substance, it's illegal to use that substance for any purpose.

    It's also why you can't have animal sacrifices in religious ceremonies, I believe. Because if it's cruely to animals, then it is no matter your purpose behind it.
     
    #7 MadMax, Feb 11, 2005
  8. insane man

    insane man Member

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    but the law doesn't apply equally. it does discriminate against a certain religion.

    besides native americans, no one else would dream of using peyote simply because its a disgusting nasty drug.

    i understand that there are limits. but its ludicrous to say that the law applies evenly across religious lines. only native americans use peyote. it doesn't affect anyone else.
     
    #8 insane man, Feb 11, 2005
  9. weakfromtoday

    weakfromtoday Member
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    I have not touched the stuff, but I know for a fact that your statement is not true.
     
    #9 weakfromtoday, Feb 11, 2005
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    the supreme court disagrees with you.

    the idea is that the law is made not to have a disproportionate effect against a religion. it's as illegal for me to use it as it is for anyone who would want to use it during a religious ceremony.

    it's similar to state laws regarding drivers license photos. your religion forbids you to take off a scarf or headdress for an identifying photo? gee...i'm sorry...because the law requires a clear, idenitifiable photo. lose the scarf or no license.
     
    #10 MadMax, Feb 11, 2005
  11. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    Exceptions are made based on the religion. Sacramental wine was exempt from prohibition.
     
    #11 MR. MEOWGI, Feb 11, 2005
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    edit
     
    #12 MadMax, Feb 11, 2005
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The 10th circuit disagrees with you.
     
    #13 SamFisher, Feb 11, 2005
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    is that right?? help me out. what ruling are you talking about? what was the scenario?

    EDIT -- sorry...you mean the case at hand. gotcha. is it your understanding that these issues have been pretty well decided, as well?? obviously, this case with the 10th circ notwithstanding. i don't remember studying this in law school, at all. we may have...but i don't remember it.
     
    #14 MadMax, Feb 11, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2005
  15. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    How do I become a member of the church?

    From my younger days experience, I might be able to qualify as a bishop.
     
    #15 Rashmon, Feb 11, 2005
  16. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    But everyone is missing the point.
    By dealing with this seemingly insignificant event, it means that all other really important problems have been solved! Hooray! They must have forgotten to tell us that.
    I'm just gonna go wait by the TV for the Special Announcement about the Big BIG Story that should coming on Channel 2.

    WORLD PEACE SPONTANEOUSLY ERUPTS!

    NO MORE HUNGER! ANYWHERE!

    YAAY!














    uh... still waiting... maybe after this commercial for fear factor...
     
    #16 Mulder, Feb 11, 2005
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I don't recall the exact rule of those case or this one, but since the SCt lifted the stay of the lower court judgment in favor of the Church and hasn't even granted cert for this one yet, I'd be hesitant to say "the law is settled against them" considering that they've been on a serious winning streak so far.
     
    #17 SamFisher, Feb 11, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2005
  18. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    #18 Rashmon, Feb 11, 2005
  19. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    so mc mark can you explain why this decision is bush limiting religious tolerance and freedom as you imply because i really don't see it.
     
    #19 robbie380, Feb 12, 2005
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Bishop Rashmon and Cardinal B-Bob. Hilarious. Sign us up, baby.
     
    #20 B-Bob, Feb 13, 2005
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