Ive said this once, and Ill say it again. Republicans across the board have been asked where the 15,000 votes in 1996 figure has come from. And not one, to include Bush's top advisors or in press conferences have they been able to come up with the figures. Sounds like bologna to me ------------------ "I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink
If Florida or these punchhole illiterate counties get a re-vote, the entire nation should get a re-vote. I'd be willing to wager that we'd have the largest voter turnout on record. ------------------ Only in America....do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
We will have 50% of the people that NO matter what Bush does will hate him. If Gore would just go with the Votes then Bush would have a chance to win some of those people over. But thanks to Gore, that aint gonna happen. He is gonna fight it to he dies, and that does ABSOLUTELY no good for the country, domestically AND Abroad. This is silly. If we go through the process and every challenge, etc, and Gore still loses, Gore voters are more likely to say "OK, Bush won fairly." If we give the election to Bush now, with so many unanswered questions in Florida, THAT is what is going to cause people to turn on and never support Bush, because people will think the election wasn't fair and the right candidate did not win. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
It gets worse, people... it gets so much worse! A friend of mine wanted to vote YES, but she thinks she might have voted for View Results on accident!!! Help! ------------------------------- Jeff -- The only reason democrats want a re-vote is because Nader backers know there is now zero point in voting for Nader.... he can't get his 5%, so a Nader vote is a wasted vote. They used it on Nader then and that was their choice, but now? A re-vote? Hmmm..... what do you guys think? A re-vote is tainted bigtime... a re-vote shouldn't even be considered whatsoever. People think there is corruption now? Wait for a re-vote! The Dems are making a spill about 19,000 thrown out votes? They punched two holes! That's called "I'm too stupid to vote".... and according to reports they were too stupid to vote in '96 too. If Gore wins this in the recount then he wins.... hell I practically conceded the presidency to him earlier in the night on the 7th when he won Pennsylvania, Michigan and supposedly won Florida. I hate the guy.... but he won I thought when that news came in. On the other hand, if Bush wins, then he wins and lets move on. However, Gore, who I've said all along would be awful for this country, is already stirring up more garbage than imaginable in preparation for a loss. Jesse Jackson? Racial issues? Intimidation? Fraud accusations? Making me sick.... You see, look at the numbers: HALF the nation is on Gore's side and HALF is on Bush's side.... it's not like there is going to be a happy country here unless the loser concedes when the numbers are in. Claiming fraud, corruption, racism is going to make this awful.... And that's what Gore is doing -- and he hasn't even officially lost yet. He's just looking for an out in the event that is the case. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
The Dems are making a spill about 19,000 thrown out votes? They punched two holes! That's called "I'm too stupid to vote".... and according to reports they were too stupid to vote in '96 too. What about the people who requested a 2nd ballot and were told "sorry, we don't have any" or "just put it in the box and don't worry about it?" There are reports that this happened. By law, voters are allowed to ruin 2 ballots each. I know you probably don't believe any of this happened, but suppose it did. Then what do you think should be done? ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
Clutch You state that the election would be tainted by a re-vote, yet, is not the election already tainted by the fact that the ballots used were illegal? ------------------ Who would've thought Don Nelson would pass up Olumide Oyedeji not once, not twice, but thrice?
If Gore wins this in the recount then he wins.... hell I practically conceded the presidency to him earlier in the night on the 7th when he won Pennsylvania, Michigan and supposedly won Florida. No, if Gore wins a re-count, there should be a 3rd re-count (since each won once). Also, there should be a recount in Wisconsin and any other close state if there are enough electoral votes to make Bush win. We have to pick the right guy. Jesse Jackson? Racial issues? Intimidation? Fraud accusations? What if they are true? They may or may not be... But isn't that for a court to decide, rather than you or me? Or should we just say, screw it. Fraud? Who cares? Intimidation? Big whoop. Might as well be a 3rd world country. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
You're right, I don't believe it happened - dems are painting a picture of the Republican Gestapo at the polls. Sounds ridiculous to me.... BUT, if it really was the case, I'd say further investigation is needed to find out if fraud did exist. Yes indeed. But keep in mind Shanna.... this is a tight, tight race so some people are saying whatever they can to incite the masses. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Clutch, I totally understand what you are saying and the process has made me pretty sick, but the Republicans are already gearing up for their own fight in the event Gore wins, so, don't think this falls only on the Dems. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
I'm amazed that anyone is making a partisan issue out of a democratic process. Stupid people get to vote, blind people get to vote, people that we don't like get to vote, my 300 lb. mom gets to vote. That ability is to me, one of the most sacred things in existence. I hold my mom's flippant republican vote, all of it, in as much regard as I do my own. It's a democracy. I was home in Greenville, S.C. a few weeks ago and I noticed my grandma squinting, close to the page with glasses on to read the paper... TRUST ME: if she were reading a ballot, she would have read in this manner: <table width="200"> <tr> <td width="100">George Bush</td><td align="right"><input type="radio"></td></tr> <tr><td width="100">Al Gore</td><td align="right"><input type="radio"></td></tr> </table> Obviously, I didn't make it cute & to scale, but realize that if your nose was an inch and a half away from the paper, you would have stopped at the radio button/hole or whatever... and punched. But... that's just my grandma. I'd kill for her, so telling me that her vote is meaningless is slightly irking. ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
I agree -- I'm not sure any of this really happened. Especially the intimidation or racial stuff (easy accusations to make). Personally, I think most of that is garbage. However, the ballot issues and double-punching issues (if people could not get a 2nd ballot) have a little more validity. I'd like a court to make those decisions. Besides, we have 10 days waiting for absentee votes.. In my mind, we might as well use that to figure out what the courts think about these other issues. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
I dont understand how all of these people are saying that the ballot was illegal. ALL BALLOTS ARE PREAPOVED BEFORE THE ELECTION BY BOTH THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVES IN THE PRECINCTS. Oh, and RIGHT ON CLUTCH!!! ------------------ The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?
You run a great site Clutch and I have loved it since Clutch City 97...buy you really are losing cred on this...as you are not normally biased. That analogy is ridiculous... We ran it by several elderly people at my work this morning and half got it wrong...that ballot paper was odviously set up to mislead... ------------------ [This message has been edited by ScreamingRocketJet (edited November 09, 2000).]
If Gore would have ignored Florida and concentrated his Florida efforts in his HOME STATE of Tennessee, we would not be talking about this. All Gore had to do was win his home state and its 10 electoral votes and he would be president regardless of Florida's outcome. ------------------
I said it before, but I will repeat it. Where I vote, we Also use the Butterfly ballot. It is NOT hard to understand, at all. There is a number next to each guy. A number next to each arrow. And the arrow points DIRECTLY at a hole to punch. If those people were concerned like they said DURING voting they should have been smart enough to know their rights, AND smart enough to READ the top of the ballot where it says PICK ONE ONLY. The ballot was not set up to Mislead. It was set up by a Democrat. It was set up to HELP the elderly by making it Larger so they could see it better. Too bad you cant take into account people's stupidity because that is what caused this. ------------------ "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
Most presidential candidates don't campaign heavily in their home states. Why should that have been different for Gore? He expected to get his home state, and I don't blame him. How many times did Bush campaign in Texas? Once? Twice? Not much. Gore won Florida. More people voted for him, but since 19,000 votes could be completely canceled, Dubyah might steal this election. Now that is sad. ------------------ 2000-2001 Rockets Game Formulas: End of 1st quarter: "They're playing so well!" 2nd: "What a great game!" 3rd: "Theres no way they can lose now!" 4th: "What the ******* **** happened?!!" Recount! Recount! Recount!...... Rocket's Championship 2001!!
Was your butterfly ballot the same one that was used in Palm Beach, or like the one from Cook County formatted so all the candidates were on same side of the holes? Secondly, the ballot was confusing enough that 19,000 people got confused and punched two holes and that Buchanan got an anomalous vote count where he probably should not have, which Buchanan himself admitted. Thirdly, the ballot violated state law. One, the candidates were supposed to be on the same side of the punch holes, which they weren't. And there was also a memo from whichever agency runs the vote in Florida which stated that the candidates had to be put on the ballot by order of the party's gubenatorial finish, which they were not. ------------------ Who would've thought Don Nelson would pass up Olumide Oyedeji not once, not twice, but thrice?
Puedlfor My ballot was exactly the same. Set up the same. I dont remember if Buchanan was on the top right page or if it was Nader, but it was Two pages of candidates. And you were wrong about the ballot in Florida. Actually the ballot was NOT against state law. If you read the law it says that if it is a WRITTEN ballot the box should be on the right and you place an X in the box. However, if you use a computer ballot, like they did, you can have the HOLE on Either the left or right. The reason why you havent heard this yet is because the dems dont want it known. They WANT people in an uproar. Also in 1996 15,000 ballots were thrown out in the SAME county. This year more people turned out thus the number is 19,000. And the last time Buchanan ran in that County he received 9000 votes. This time he got 3400. Buchanan HATES the Bush's, so I dont trust a thing Pat says. If you somehow think ALL Pats votes were meant for Gore, think of this. There is 16,000 REGISTERED Independant AND Reform voters in the county. Now are you HONESTLY telling me that out of those 16,000 voters you cant see where 3400 chose him? ZRB, I think the reason Bush didnt campaign in Texas is because he is liked here. He is, as far as I can remember reading, the ONLY person elected BACK TO BACK as Governor in the state of Texas. We have had some two termers, but not back to back. He also got 70% of the vote in 1998. MOST people here obviously like him. However, in Tennessee, where Gore is best known he LOST. All this would be moot had he carried his own state. He would be the next President had he done that. But the people that knew Gore the best chose BUSH. I think Gore is showing WHY they chose Bush with the 93 lawyers he has in Florida Rustling up people to file ONE complaint against the ballot. And by the way, Bush is WINNING FLorida as of now. If, like you said Gore won it he wouldnt be as desperate as he is now looking for votes. The 19,000 votes werent canceled by the state. The idiots that Chose TWO candidates did it to themselves. At the top it said "CHOOSE ONE", I guess if they cant line up an arrow and a hole to punch that they might not be able to know exactly what ONE is.. ------------------ "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
According to the local US representative, only about 7,000 ballots were thrown out in 1996. Secondly, there are only 350 voters in Palm Beach registered for the Reform party, so you know what, I find it hard to believe that Buchanan would garner such large support in a heavily democratic area with a large Jewish population. And if you don't believe the Buchanan likes Bush better than Gore, you're fooling yourselves, especially considering that Buchanan said he's rather have Bush president than Gore. ------------------ Who would've thought Don Nelson would pass up Olumide Oyedeji not once, not twice, but thrice?
i live in that precint an, i feel i was decieved. i feel I should be able to vote again. I.... i'll just die, i tell ya... i'll just die if Bush wins. my life will be so drastically diffrent if i get to vote again allowing my favorite categorical canidate to win. I'll only have to work 3hrs a day instead of 8, and study truth and beauty and science and i'll hardly ever watch Jerry springer and Sally Jessy Rafeal in my spare time ,thanx to Al gore. ...Aaaand i'll become a juicer! thirty-five hail marys every night till Al gore becomes president then ill start my new life. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited November 10, 2000).]
