Well when Yao is out - Deke is in. And Deke is monster on the boards. I do think the +/- stat do provide some insght - that maybe Yao's rebounding isn't as bad as many like to think. Yes he could improve a lot but he's not horrible either.
Go to the profile of Yao Ming. It shows effective field goal % for when the player is ON the court compared to when they are OFF the court. Not to derail the thread by talking about FG% - it's only to show that there's not "more rebounds" available with Yao off the court (hence that fails to explain why we get more rebounds...) Not that the FG% even matters! The figures show the % of rebounds that we get. So if there isn't a rebound available then it doesn't count as a % either way... what 82games shows is that of the rebounds available we get 49.9% with Yao on the court, and 51.1% when he's off the court. So whether a shot is made is irrelevant!!
I guess another way to look at this is that Deke is a better center than the opposing backup center compared to Yao vs the opposing start center. I believe this to be a true statement, Deke is hell of a backup. Mark
But where is this stat from?? Is there a link to it?? And the fact that we get marginally under 1/2 the rebounds when Yao is on the court means that he's not a good rebounder --> made clear by the fact that we are better off when he's not on the court and, by your admission, a good rebounder comes in!
No matter what, yao need to fight for reb more. I hope he can reb like that game vs big ben. do you remember that he is late because the trafic and JVG and his teammates ask him, he should give them a good game. He rebed 20 and score 21. So it's still his effort. 82 games, long season, he need more energy.
This doesn't prove Yao is a poor rebounder because the players our first unit (when Yao is in) and second unit (when Yao is out) play against are different. Yao normally faces the first units of other teams, which normally would be better at reboudning than their second units. All the quoted stat's say is that our second unit (when Yao is out and Deke is in) are better in rebounding than the (usually) second units of other teams. This sounds about right because we have the best backup center in the league. The same logic applies to the difference in the effective FG percentages with and without Yao.
This is true - however it's probably a bit more liquid than you make out. Yao will play agianst second unit players from time to time, and with "hybrid" starting/ second unit teams out there. Stats can certainly be deceiving if pressed too hard - I am merely arguing that Yao does NOT make his teammates better rebounders. As earlier posters in the thread asserted. And is there actually going to be a link to the "stat" that shows Yao outrebounding his opponent? I'd be interested in perusing the page - would be really interesting to see how some of the "better" rebounders fare!
He does outrebound his opponents but he still has quite a bit to improve on. There is no reason why Yao shouldn't be grabbing 10-11 rpg.
Yao's rebounding is definitely going to get better, he has all the tools and he's learning the skills from Mutumbo right now. I saw an improvement directly related to Mutumbo.
Th percentage numbers (fg or rebounding) don't really show a major trend either way. The differences are marginal, Deke's pt isn't that high, and Deke will tend to play more against the other team's 2nd-stringers. All I'm saying is that Yao IS outrebounding the opposing center. I'm not saying he's a good rebounder - I'm just saying he's not horrible either. It's hard for someone that big to be terrible (statwise). While his technique and quickness may leave a lot to be desired, his size compensates for a lot.
I'm sure the average NBA center gets less rebounds per 48 minutes that Yao. Just look at the averages of the other centers: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...n=2005&seasontype=2&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c All in all, I agree with you - Yao should be amongst the league leaders. I just don't think he's as bad as some media pundits make him to be.
The best way to measure a player's impact on rebounding is the count the percentage of total defensive rebounds against opponents total offensive rebounds AND percentage of total offensive rebounds against opponent's total defensive rebounds WHEN HE'S ON THE COURT, vs. WHEN HE'S NOT ON THE COURT. I wonder if they keep this kind of +/- stats. I've always observed that Yao concentrates on boxing out his man and always defers to his teammates when both him and a teammate get to the ball at the same time.
It's pretty weird that you'd use the effective FG% in the one situation in which it doesn't apply. Chances at rebounding doesn't increase by 50% if someone shoots a 3. It's the same no matter what kind of shot is being put up. Now, I'm not saying we shoot more 3s when Yao's out(or vice versa). Because I don't know. It's just that unadjusted FG% is the objective stat to use here. I agree with the poster above on why we rebound better with Yao out of the game. There's no doubt that Mutumbo is a better rebounder than Yao. And that our team rebounding is better with him on the court. But this isn't Yao vs. Deke. But rather analyzing how effective Yao is in comparison to his opponents.
