As someone that was raised in the western world, I suppose I have to retract my earlier complaint that the ballot was coherent. We read from freaking left to right. The option holes in the middle seem to break up the flow pretty dang dramatically. Particularly (sp.) if you're 85 years old. If I were developing a UI, there's no way in hell I'd make something that damn confusing. ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
Am I the ONLY one that wonders where the Bush voters are? Apparently almost 3 Million people voted for Bush and Gore apiece. Yet all we see on TV are people that voted for Gore. Is this a show of the Liberal media? If not, then how is that explained. The complaining of the ballot sounds like nothing but sour grapes. The thing was published in the paper and handed out. Also, if you vote for TWO people for the same office your vote SHOULD be disqualified. The fact that this ballot has been used BEFORE in Florida hasnt been reported. BUT it has been used before. The only question should be the recount, NOT the people that couldnt read the ballot. ------------------ "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
The Bush supporters don't have anything to complain about . . . yet. If Bush loses the re-count, you can rest assured that they'll start coming out of the woodwork. As for the ballot issue . . . Judging from all of your recent posts, you seem to be especially passionate about this issue. You seem to think that if people voted for the wrong candidate, then tough $#!+ for them. So much for the right to vote, eh? My question for all Republicans, is this: why are you so afraid of a re-vote for this one county? Is it because you are not confident enough to believe that your candidate really won? ------------------
In that particular county, there were more third party / independent candidates (I think seven) than in many counties. They got the required number of signitures in that county, so they had to be placed on the ballot with the same prominence as any other candidate. The number of third party / independents who get on the ballot can vary from state to state, and county to county. We only had three, for a total of 5 candidates. They had nine, which is harder to fit on the same page. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Good point. The Repubs aren't sure they won Florida. That's what this comes down to. Bush hasn't really spoken to the issue, but I'm sure he would like to win this thing clean. There has been a lot of talk about how the county's re-vote would be a mess because of interest groups, bribes, turnout ect, but sometimes something must be done to correct an error. I'm for it. It may not be the perfect solution, but its more fair than what happened on Tuesday. In this case something needs to be done. A Re-vote clarifies everything. Some recommendations have been to only let those vote that voted the first time. I don't know about that, but it's a thought. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Maybe because the Bush supporters don't have anything to be b****ing about in West Palm Beach right now. The reason the liberal media (get over it) is only showing Gore supporters is because that's all there is right now. Actually, MSNBC said that they were starting to see some Bush supporters were starting to show up, meaning that none were there to show. ------------------ "He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill visit www.swirve.com
[/b][/QUOTE] The Bush supporters don't have anything to complain about . . . yet. If Bush loses the re-count, you can rest assured that they'll start coming out of the woodwork. As for the ballot issue . . . Judging from all of your recent posts, you seem to be especially passionate about this issue. You seem to think that if people voted for the wrong candidate, then tough $#!+ for them. So much for the right to vote, eh? My question for all Republicans, is this: why are you so afraid of a re-vote for this one county? Is it because you are not confident enough to believe that your candidate really won? [/B][/QUOTE] The revote would be horribly wrong. ANYONE wanting a revote is surely just thinking partisan. I am think BiPartisan. This IS NOT about winning or losing, it is about opening up a can of Worms. IF Gore gets this revoted in this county, then Bush should get some of WIsconsin revoted... That is fairness. If you revote you will get 100% of the vote therefore making ANOTHER joke of this entire process. And the one thing that really pisses me, is that Jesse Jackson and the NAACP are down there marching. This has nothing to do with Civil Rights. Let the recount take place FIRST. All Jesse is doing is Dividing the country more. 50 Million people voted for both people, so it is obvious we are divided already, but when Jesse marches there it further entrenches the HATRED in some of those peoples minds... ------------------ "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
Why should someone that knows how to read have to take time out of their schedule to go re-do something because a few idiots don't know what an arrow pointing to a circle means? Gee, do you suppose this may affect the turnout just a tad? ------------------ Scared into the voting booth, terrified of the ballot.
I voted for Gore but I'll take a crack at this question anyway. Imagine that you live in Palm Beach county. Further, imagine that you've voted for Nadar. Or one of those 11 other parties they seem to have on their ballot. Or maybe you didn't vote at all. Now, someone tells you there's going to be a re-vote. Just for your county. And basically, your county in Florida is going to decide who is the next president of the United States. Now, your vote is gold. Now maybe you still don't use it. Maybe you still vote for Nadar, although you know he's not going to get his 5% with your vote or without it. But probably you realize that with it being such a close race, and with all the marbles riding on your vote, you vote. And vote for either Gore or Bush. High turnout benefits Dems. The Nadar voters voting Gore benefits Dems. The Dems have always been more effective at churning the vote machine when needed, anyway. Plus think about the potential for corruption - if the vote's going to come down to a <1000 voter margin, how much would unscrupulous polititians pay to an individual voter in the county? $10,000? $100,000? Bottom line - can't have a re-vote. My solution would be to split those double-votes in half. If 4,000 people voted for both Gore and Buchanan, give each of those candidates 2,000 votes apiece. Seems fairer than junking the ballot completely. ------------------
Have you ever been given that quiz that says please read the instructions all the way before completeing this quiz. Then when you get to the end of the quiz it says that if you don't answer any questions you get a one hundred. If you answer any question you get a zero score. 95% of the public got a zero. I don't think those people are morons. Those 95% are not idiots. The quiz was a demonstration of how humans react to certain situations. This ballot was misleading. It didn't take an idiot to punch in the wrong candidate. Cassell, interesting thought but unconsitutional because each person would get two votes. Thus making their vote more significant. ------------------ humble, but hungry. [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited November 09, 2000).] [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited November 09, 2000).]
OK, no revote, but give the 19,000 ballots thrown out because of Buchanan and Gore both punched out. I think it's pretty obvious that those people meant to vote for Gore. I still think if the ballot is illegal, something as to be done. ------------------ "He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill visit www.swirve.com
You're kidding right? It's not "thinking partisan" to knowingly let your opponent lose votes, while gleefully accepting the ones you got from the same county? It's not "thinking partisan" to accept a Presidency based on votes received from a state that you know that you didn't win? Let's review just the facts: 1) 19,000 ballots were thrown out for being double punched. 2) Hundreds of pi$$ed off citizens have complained that they may have accidentally cast their ballots incorrectly. 3) Three citizens feel strongly enough about it to have actually hired lawyers and begin litigation. 4) Pat Buchanan got 3 1/2 times as many votes in a heavily elderly Jewish populated area than in the next highest county. 5) A federal judge will have a hearing today on the topic. Sorry pal, the "can of Worms" is alredy open. If Bush can provide evidence that the people mis-represented themselves, then yes, some of Wisconsin should be allowed to re-vote. "That is fairness" Jackson is pi$$ed about 2 things. 1) An abnormally high percentage of the discarded 19,000 ballots were from largely African American voting districts. 2) He's accusing some polling places of turning away African American voters. I'm not sure whether or not this is true, but this is a serious allegation and bears looking into. SamCassell, I definitely understand the criticisms that Nader supporters may swing Gore's way in a re-vote and that bribery and generally crooked practices may take place to influence the voters. It's still not fair to allow a skewed representation of the region. If a re-vote is not allowed, then many citizens have not only lost their right to vote, but by virtue of accidentally voting for the wrong candidate, have had their votes stolen from them to further the cause of another party. There is no easy solution to this problem. A re-vote is one. Throwing out all of the votes of the entire county of Palm Beach is another (i.e. that both Republicans and Democrats lose their votes). Doing nothing and allowing injustice to stand is another. [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited November 09, 2000).]
I totally agree with TheFreak! If you aren't compentent enough to understand the ballot (which was NOT confusing - its plain and simple) or they were not compenent enough to ask for help, then they do not need to be voting. They are most likely too ignorant to understand the politics anyways! And what does the law say? Ignorance is NOT an excuse!!! And what are the Democrats going to b**** about next? The people that read the email and came to vote on the 8th? No doubt there are plenty of them, as they can not understand a simple ballot! If you punch two canidates ... your vote DOES NOT count! If you made a mistake, get a new ballot. ------------------ its all good and fun till someone gets hurt ... then its absolutely hilarious!
Launch Pad, 1. I guess it doesnt matter to you that in 1996 there was 15,000 ballots thrown out for being double punched. 2. Of course there are citizens pissed off. Their candidate seems like he is losing. There is actually a LARGE population of Independant and Reform voters. If you care to watch the news, it has been reported recently, of course not by Gore or his people. 3. The three citizens are jealous due to the fact that Gore might lose. Sour Grapes. Also Jesse Jackson and all the lawyers down in Florida BREED hatred, and it is showing by the dems. 4. See above about the Registered Reform and Independant voters. How did people Mis-represent themselves? Gore is NOT happy with the current recount and now wants a MANUAL recount of three counties.. Yeah, that is good for the country. 1 .You say Jackson is pissed about the 19,000 ballots. Yet you FAIL to say that once again in 1996 15,000 Ballots were thrown out for the SAME reason. Please explain to me why you think 19,000 is more important than the 15,000 last election. Nothing is Out of place. 2. I am sorry but I disagree. Like I have said Before today, Jesse Jackson is a man of self promotion. The fact that he is on TV gets him a hardon. You say this is Injustice. The ONLY injustice is that NOW there will be YET another Recount, and then SOME more counties will be counted by HAND. So YES, PAL, you are think Partisan. AND The Dems are opening up the can of worms right as we speak. ps. DId you see the ballot that the Bush campaign showed on TV? It was nearly identical to the one used in West Palm Beach, and it is from Bill Daleys county. So why is he b****ing about it in FLorida but not about in a State he won? Yep, PARTISAN politics once again by the dems. ------------------ "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
If we're going to allow illegal ballots, which this one clearly is, no matter someone approved it, we might as well start adding little comments beside each candidate. Bush-dimwitted alcoholic from Massachusetts...er, Maine...er, Texas. Gore-wooden robot who claims to have invented the internet from Tennessee...er, Washington D.C. Nader-goofy guy who hasn't uttered anything different than "if he can't beat the bumbling governor from Texas with the poor record..." since July Buchanan-Anti-Jewish, immigrant, basically anything differnet than him who mysteriously appeals to Jewish persons in West Palm Beach, Fl. The ballot was illegal, plain as day. No one is above the law, not even the Democrat who approved the ballot. All candidate names must be on the left-hand side, which they weren't, and Democrat and Republican must be the first two, which they weren't. ------------------ "He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill visit www.swirve.com
DUDE, Here are my replies to your first list of comments: 1. I still haven't seen any proof of the alleged 15,000 ballots in 1996, nor have the Republicans attempted to offer any. Even if the allegation was true, what does that have to do with taking away those citizens' Constitutional right to vote? 2. Of course, the Republicans are afraid of a re-vote, because they know that their "win" isn't real. Furthermore, you can't be so myopic that you can't see how a predominantly leberal Jewish county wouldn't vote for a a man who once described Adolf Hitler as "an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him." 3. The three citizens are pi$$ed, because they accidentally wasted their votes. As for your droning on and on about Jesse Jackson, I suppose you'd like to get rid of the right to free speech, as well as the right to vote of people that have different viewpoints than yourself. 4. Let me just reiterate that the Jews don't typically vote for racists. You asked, "How did people Mis-represent themselves? " You're kidding again right? Are you trying to tell me that you can't get the basic concept of why accidentally voting for the wrong candidate might be construed as mis-representing yourself? I would have considered such an elementary concept easier than punching a hole in a ballot. Are you sure, you meet your own criteria for voting You say, "Gore is NOT happy with the current recount and now wants a MANUAL recount of three counties.. Yeah, that is good for the country." Yeah, that's just about as "good for the country" as Bush knowingly accepting the title of President that he didn't honestly win. Here are my replies to your second list of comments. 1. Again, I'd still like to see evidence of the 15,000 ballots from 1996. Provide a link please of a news story that discusses that particular problem, so I can see what evidence it's based on. 2. You "disagree"? Who are you? Judge Judy? Jackson is making allegations to something that may be a fact. It's not an opinion or an idea. You can't just "disagree". That would be like taking someone to court for stealing your car and the judge says, "I disagree", before knowing the facts. Look past your obvious Republican bias and try to embrace this idea: every American has a fundamental right to vote. That includes those 19,000+ people from Palm Beach county. Wrap your mind around that concept and put it in your heart, because that's what this country was founded on. You assert, "So YES, PAL, you are think Partisan. AND The Dems are opening up the can of worms right as we speak." Hey Pot, it's me Kettle. You claim not to be partisan. I point out that you are being partisan. Then you come back by calling me partisan again? What exactly is partisan about thinking people have a right to vote how they intended to vote? You are afraid that a re-vote would hurt your candidate, not that it would hurt the country. That is partisan! As I said before, the can of worms is already open. PS. I have said it once, and I'll say it again. If allegations arise from other areas of the country, Republican or Democrat, that shows that people may have "accidentally" voted for the wrong person, then they should be alllowed a re-vote also. I would rather do the right thing, than the convenient thing. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited November 09, 2000).]
They said that the ballots were thrown out because two votes were cast -- not because the two were for Buchanan and Gore. What's been suggested is that the two vote tickets were an attempt to make sure that Gore was voted for by punching both holes, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. What could have happened more often is the voters thinking they were voting on two separate lists -- one on the left, and one on the right. They might not have recognized what they were voting for on the right, or who those people were, but that happens all the time on ballots -- there's a list so you vote on it, whether you have any idea who the people are or what the position is. How many of you voted for railroad commissioner, and had no idea who the candidates were? Since this was probably the case with a lot of voters, there's no telling what their intent was. They could have tried to punch both holes near Gore's name, or they could have been voting for anyone on the left and Buchanan because they recognized his name. We can't know their intent. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Here is a better picture of the ballot in question. What do those big ass arrows point too? Could it be the hole that I am supposed to punch? Haven't tried this before, so if it isn't viewable, here is the link: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20001109/us/ballot_confusion_6uo.html ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness. [This message has been edited by Curly (edited November 10, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Curly (edited November 10, 2000).]
