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Herald: Yao vs Shaq - Numbers Fail To Tell The Whole Story

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Faos, Jan 31, 2005.

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  1. Faos

    Faos Member

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    It's funny how Shaq gets the same treatment from the refs that Yao seems to go through on a nightly basis and can't handle it. Even refusing to talk to the media after the game. What a puss. (Uh, don't tell him I said that.)


    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/10775995.htm?1c

    The numbers fail to tell the whole story

    BY STEPHEN F. HOLDER

    sholder@herald.com

    The postgame boxscore reflected an afternoon on which Yao Ming outplayed Shaquille O'Neal. But if you bothered to ask any member of the Miami Heat, you would be promptly informed that you were wrong.

    ''Just by having him step on the court, he's impacting the game,'' guard Dwyane Wade said of O'Neal, who finished with 15 points and five rebounds, compared to Yao's 22 points and nine rebounds.

    ``Yao's not leaving him, [Dikembe] Mutombo's not leaving him.''

    Said forward Udonis Haslem, who scored 16 points and had eight rebounds: ``All you have to do is look at everybody else's stats. It's because of Shaq.''

    TOUGH DAY

    This was not a banner day for O'Neal. His pedestrian numbers, exasperation with the lack of fouls called for him and the frequency with which they were being called against him, led O'Neal to exhibit as much frustration as he has all season.

    He showed it in drawing a technical foul after a noncall with 8:28 left in the third quarter of Miami's 104-95 victory against the Rockets, going toe-to-toe with referee Luis Grillo in a vehement protest. O'Neal's emotions hadn't subsided after the game when he left the Miami locker room in a hurry, blowing off his postgame interviews.

    It was a scene reminiscent of a Dec. 8 game at Milwaukee where foul trouble limited O'Neal to 21 minutes while he shot only five free throws. He stormed out after that game.

    Sunday, O'Neal was in foul trouble for most of the second half, and the problem reached a disconcerting level when he was called for his fifth foul with 7:12 left, requiring him to sit until 2:10 remained. During those five-plus minutes on the bench, O'Neal sat and stewed about his five fouls and his lack of free throws. The league's leader in free-throw attempts (11.1 per-game), O'Neal didn't attempt his first until the fourth.

    `FRUSTRATING'

    ''He's down there, and they're calling it on the other end and he's getting in foul trouble, so it was very frustrating,'' Wade said.

    But the key for O'Neal was not letting the circumstances affect his play.

    ''I can understand his frustration,'' Haslem said. ``Big Fella is out there working hard, and he takes a lot of punishment. It's hard for him to accept it sometimes, but I told him that we really needed him in the game.''

    When he was in the game, the Heat took advantage. While O'Neal attempted just 11 shots, the Heat shot 50 percent from the field, getting good looks throughout.

    And there was no question why.

    ''On the pick and rolls in the first half, we were getting uncontested jump shots,'' Heat coach Stan Van Gundy said. ``I look down, and [Houston coach] Jeff [Van Gundy] is all [ticked] off. But the bottom line is, Yao's not going to rotate the way he normally rotates because he doesn't want to leave Shaq.''
     
    #1 Faos, Jan 31, 2005
  2. fa7999

    fa7999 Member

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    This kind of BS is getting old quickly.

    At first it was that Yao would be totally destroyed by Shaq.

    Then it was that Yao outplayed Shaq because he cheated on D by not going one on one against Shaq.

    Then in the playoff Yao got quite a fair amount of double team from Marlone and Shaq. When LAL won, Yao was blamed for not able to school two HOFs.

    Now Yao clearly outplayed one on one, Yao still cannot get any credit because Shaq brough much more intangibles onto the court; Shaq was in foul trouble.......It's not like that Yao was not in foul trouble. It was not that the Rockets kept bricking the wide open jumpers. Only poor Hubie was able to point out that the Rockets got wide open looks after open looks, it's just that they were not able to hit anything from downtown.

    Fast forward to 2006. When Yao dominates Shaq by outscoring him 35 to 20, it's because Yao is 7'6" and his fadeaway and outside jumpers are falling on that particular day. Shaq is still Yao's daddy no matter what.
     
    #2 fa7999, Jan 31, 2005
  3. JusBleezy

    JusBleezy Member

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    Yeah, basicly. It is a very tired argument. When Shaq wins, he is the most dominant ever. When Yao win's, his shots were just falling that night. It is a double-standard for the simple fact that he is Shaq.
     
    #3 JusBleezy, Jan 31, 2005
  4. fa7999

    fa7999 Member

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    I just felt really bad for Yao. I am not sure how fan Rockets fans and NBA fans/experts believed that Yao would be able to hold his own against Shaq/outplay Shaq on a regular basis only after one season in the league. When we draft him 3 years ago, I felt that we would be lucky if he were able to average 15 ppg his 3rd year and not totally got destroyed by Shaq.

    Now in his 3rd year, even outplaying Shaq could not prevent people from trashing him for his play in THIS particular game. It does not matter no centers in this league has been able to remotely do that to Shaq since 1995. Yao should know that he is in no win situation when making jumpers is also a source from the media and some fans.
     
    #4 fa7999, Jan 31, 2005
  5. Visagial

    Visagial Member

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    What's really annoying is that Yao has never held himself out as the next dominant big man in the NBA or Shaq's successor.

    Before he was drafted, the media tore him down as worse than Shawn Bradley. He has a 29 pt game against Shaq and he's the next Wilt. Now he's only putting up 18 and 8 and he doesn't belong in the league. Sports writers have too much time on their hands and not enough things to jump to conclusions about.
     
    #5 Visagial, Jan 31, 2005
  6. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    This is a silly statement. Shaq isn't the player he once was whether he likes to admit it or not. My question for Yao is why do you bring it against Shaq, but can't against others?

    Neither Shaq nor Yao win - their teams win. Everybody else can pump up this fantasy matchup, but I'm not buying into it. For one thing, I want to see him bring it against everybody. If you're saying Yao wins against Shaq, you better be able to accept that players like Brad Miller and Stromile Swift eat him alive... err... win against him.
     
    #6 Dr of Dunk, Jan 31, 2005
  7. KeepKenny

    KeepKenny Member

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    Before it was Shaq getting double teamed by Yao and a teammate. Now, it's "Yao's not leaving him, [Dikembe] Mutombo's not leaving him.''

    No ****, they're not leaving him.

    Shaq was in foul trouble not because they called him for fouling Yao, but because he pushes guys in the back on every rebound attempt. Only Mutombo really has the moxy to make it obvious, and so he drew several loose ball fouls on him.

    I really don't know what the Heat are complaining about. The play when Shaq got the tech was when he pushed Yao in the head with his off arm. That could have been another foul on him. The Heat got just about every borderline call.

    Also, Shaq would have been out on the floor getting more numbers in the 4th quarter if he weren't such a horrible freethrow shooter. The Heat did just fine with him on the bench.
     
    #7 KeepKenny, Jan 31, 2005
  8. sun12

    sun12 Member

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    Everybody knows by now that Yao can't handle fronting and double teams. So the question is not why he can't play well against less players, but is the fronting fixable for Yao? It is getting old that Rox guards can't pass the ball. Yao should deserve much of the blame. But is the fronting fixable? Any opinions?
     
    #8 sun12, Jan 31, 2005
  9. BigM

    BigM Member

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    at first when i read this i thought you were referencing yao and i typed this paragraph going off on you, but nevermind, i agree. :) actually it's not even the same treatment, shaq atleast gets away with more then his share of no-call offensive fouls while yao gets ZERO benefit of the doubt. they might be the two worse ref'd people in the league but yao is on a completely other level in terms of how much crap he takes.
     
    #9 BigM, Jan 31, 2005
  10. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

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    We partially solved that after all-star break last season. It
    took time and both parties to learn.
     
    #10 snowmt01, Jan 31, 2005
  11. tituspan

    tituspan Member

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    Really we did? oh I am looking forward to post all star game games.
     
    #11 tituspan, Jan 31, 2005
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