im thinking of purchasing and smoking something call 'saliva dovornium'. It's legal and suppose to create an ODB - an Out of Body Experience.
I thought the funniest rant on smoking had to be when Norm McDonald was on Dennis Miller Live. The segment was on smoking. Norm was obviously screwed up....I think he said "****" about 40 times....but he had a little mini rant of his own comparing inhaling second hand smoke to someone vomiting a pork sandwich in your mouth. I think he was also talking about Smoking Cocks.
AB stated, in the opening post for this thread, that he had "not been able to find info on the short term effects of smoking" for that reason, I listed some. Later, Rockets2K stated that "the venom some of you [non-smokers] shoot our way is frankly baffling" I posted again explaining where the venom comes from. I didn't post an essay. I tried to keep my list items short and simple. And I responded only with info about short-term effects and where the 'venom' comes from. I refrained from elaborating or from digressing. The fact that smokers may not like the responses I listed is beyond my control. I did not directly insult smokers, I did not attack any specific members on this bbs, nor did I generalize smokers as saying they are all evil (in fact, I thanked Rockets2K for being a considerate smoker). When I'm in a place like a bar, I don't complain. I know I'm in a bar which is not non-smoking. In a bar, when the person next to me lights up, I don't complain, or even make a face. If I'm gonna be unhappy about the smoke, I'll be unhappy with the business or the law, but not the person. I'm only unhappy about smoking when I'm in a non-smoking place and have to smell the smoke. ... And... I like typing my name at the end of every post. I will not stop doing so. -- droxford
it's an extra 10 or 12 bytes we have to store just so you can write your name unnecessarily when we can look over to the left to see that you posted it. It's wasting bandwidth. Stop doing it.
My father died of lung cancer on January the 7th of 2005. I havent smoked since. Yes he smoked a pack and a half per day. Yes my kids joked around once with my cigarrete but. They were thinking ....my Dad's cool....he smokes....i wanna be like him....cool. Do not smoke. Your life and your childrens life depend on it. I never though I would say that. Smoking sucks. I smoked about 3/4 of a pack per day for 18 years. I havent smoked since that dredful day. My dad was old but never developed any problems. Very healthy. Then bam, within 1.5 weeks, he died of lung cancer.
Dude, don't act like there is a scientific consensus on the subject, because there ISN'T. Its ok for you to believe what you believe, but don't say your side has the TRUTH and the other side is ignorant 'cause it ain't so. Simple problem for you to figure out: Western Europe has higher smoking rates, with harsher tobacco. Why do they have less incidents of smoking related disease? Don't know? Neither do the Glanz's and other hoodoo doctors your studies quote. Thank You. Now be quiet.
I can't help it, I have tried to stop, but it is a bad habit, how about I just drop it down to one single D?
First, this has what exactly to do with second-hand smoke? Second, I don't live in Western Europe. Third, I don't believe you. Go ahead and produce any kind of loony evidence you want, it doesn't mean there is a conensus and I don't believe it. For all I know all of the studies pointing to your example are just wrong.
Uh, smoke has to cause harm for second hand smoke to be harmful? That would seem to be relevant. That's a stupid argument. Do you think ETS is harmful here but not in Europe? Please explain why that is so. Who's showing "ignorance of the topic to such an extent that they are just being argumentative to "represent their side?" It seems to be you. Well you're quite objective, aren't you. You sound pretty confused. MY point is there isn't a consensus, and that there are gaping holes in the conclusion that ETS is harmful - like that fact that Western Europeans smoke MORE and have LESS of these reported illnesses. If you want to plug your ears and run around the room singing 'lalalalalalalalala' while someone else makes a point you can't grasp, go ahead. But I doubt you've read ANY studies, know anything about ANY studies, or could defend ANY studies. So save us your proclamations about the TRUTH in this dispute.
If breathing smoke, in general, is more harmful than not breathing smoke....then how anyone thinks that breathing second hand smoke isnt harmful is pretty absurd. hayes - do you agree that breathing smoke is harmful?
Uh, smoke has to cause harm for second hand smoke to be harmful? That would seem to be relevant. Again, what exactly do smoking rates and disease rates in Western Europe have to do with second hand smoke being harmful?? Smoke does have to cause harm to be harmful, but I don't see how or how not the smoking disease rates being any higher or any lower in any one location proves or disproves the notion that smoke is harmful. Certain people are less likely to get skin cancer from laying out in the sun then others, but it doesn't mean soaking up rays isn't harmful?? That's a stupid argument. Do you think ETS is harmful here but not in Europe? Please explain why that is so. Given the infinite list of variables that are different between Western Europe and America, or even across America, for that matter, again, should I assume that if smoking in Western Europe isn't really harmful than I should go ahead and smoke non-stop. No, that would be stupid. Who's showing "ignorance of the topic to such an extent that they are just being argumentative to "represent their side?" It seems to be you. Well you're quite objective, aren't you. You sound pretty confused. MY point is there isn't a consensus, and that there are gaping holes in the conclusion that ETS is harmful - like that fact that Western Europeans smoke MORE and have LESS of these reported illnesses. If you want to plug your ears and run around the room singing 'lalalalalalalalala' while someone else makes a point you can't grasp, go ahead. But I doubt you've read ANY studies, know anything about ANY studies, or could defend ANY studies. So save us your proclamations about the TRUTH in this dispute. I never claimed any provlamations about any truth. Perhaps I just grouped you in the FattyFat camp to quickly, but it is VERY humorous to me to see this response when I just randomly throw out all of your "evidence" and go around the room singing lalalalalalala. Fatty, for one, has consistently failed to even recognize specific individuals identifications of second-hand smoke as causing them significant physical discomfort, essentially ignoring stacks upon stacks of evidence - linked to ad naseum in the smoking threads on these boards over the years - by going around the room singing lalalalalalalala, I don't believe you. Maybe you're in that camp too, maybe not. In either case, I never said my side had the truth and the other was ignorant. I did say it was ignorant to base the other side of the argument on complete refusal to acknowledge studies done to show the harmful effects of second hand smoke and further refusal to acknowledge, scientific hoopla aside, individuals specific identifications of second hand smoke as causing physical pain or discomfort. That's just stupid. Bigballerj can pinpoint himself second-hand smoke as causing him pain. I know people, my wife included, who are exactly the same way. Doesn't mean it is harmful to everyone, but it is clearly harmful to some. I was purposely being argumentative just for the sake of it in my response to you, because it seems to be in vogue in this thread.
Smoking bothers me because smokers are generally SELFISH. It is an incredibly selfish habit. Here are the reasons: 1. It will probably kill you. While that might not seem selfish...it is. Your whole family has to watch you die and take care of you as the cancer or other sickness slowly kills you over a period of years. Of course YOU don't care...it was worth it to you. Short term joy for an early death...YOU made that choice...now your love ones have to watch you suffocate to death for 1-2 years. 2. Litter. EVERY smoker I know throws there used butts on the ground. When did it become OK for YOU as a smoker to make my world dirty, but if I threw a used cup on the ground, it would probably piss you off. 15% of the tonnage of trash on Texas highways are butts. Disgusting. Dispose of your trash properly. 3. You stink. Horribly. We have to smell you. You don't know or think you stink, but you do. Of course you don't care. Your selfish, as most smokers are. You make everybody else's life a little worse so you can enjoy yours a little more. 4. Second hand smoke. It MAY not slowly give me cancer too. It MAY not contain as bad of chemicals. But it does give a lot of people headaches, stopped up noses, makes them cough, ect. Because of YOUR selfishness, other people are caused physical ailments. So let me see...You stink worse than poop, you litter up the road or sidewalk, you stop up people's noses or give them headaches...AND your family...your kids, your brothers and sisters, ect...will have to sit there and watch you be afraid to go to sleep at night because you might not be able to breath and die. I had to sit there and do that. My Grandmother was scared to fall asleep in the hostpital because she was afraid to stop breathing. It was one of the mose miserable, saddest things I had to see. Her brain was not getting enough oxygen, so she didn't really no everybody all the time. It ripped everybody's heart out....all because of the cigarette. All because it tasted good...all because it was cool. THAT is why people that don't smoke get annoyed at you. Don't be surprised anymore.
Too simplistic. If you walk through a bar where people are smoking and out through the back door - have you been harmed by second hand smoke? The answer is no, unless you are in the .000x percentage of the population that is actually allergic to smoke. There are thresholds used to determine potential hazards in public policy. A zero threshold is never used because it falsely implys actual harm where it doesn't exist. Standing at your barbeque you inhale smoke, should we ban barbeque?
