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Terrorist Attack on US Warship -----

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by dc sports, Oct 12, 2000.

  1. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    For those that haven't heard, a US warship was attacked in the Persian Gulf. 4 sailors were killed, 31 injured, and the ship is badly damaged.

    Just a reminder, 150 members of the Houston Air National Guard just left to enforce the no-fly zone over Iraq. Please take a moment to remember (and pray for, if you are so inclined) all of our soldiers and sailors that are "on the line."
    http://www.msnbc.com/news/475547.asp

    Suicide bombing against Navy ship

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 12 — At least four U.S. sailors were killed and 31 injured Thursday when a suicide bomber rammed a Navy destroyer at the entrance to the Persian Gulf. U.S. officials told NBC Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski that they had feared just such an attack.

    A SMALL speed boat filled with explosives slammed into the USS Cole in port at Yemen, U.S. officials said. At least 31 of its 350 crew were injured, five seriously. One sailor was missing. The registry of the boat, an inflatable Zodiac, and the nationality of its occupants were not immediately known. No one has claimed responsibility.

    Miklaszewski reported that the bombing left a 20-by-40-foot hole in the ship, which lost power and took on water for a time. No fires broke out. “We don’t know exactly ... what kind of explosives were used,” one official said, “but it caused one helluva an explosion.”

    U.S. officials had thought it was only a matter of time before such an attack was attempted, Miklaszewski added. The USS Cole is part of the ongoing operation to enforce sanctions against Iraq. Miklaszewski added that even though Navy ships deploy tight security when at port, the attack happened so quickly that the crew was caught by surprise.

    Yemen is on the southern tip of the Arabian Peninsula on the Red Sea. The Cole was in port for a four-hour refueling stop and was to have headed to Bahrain for a port visit. Background about the USS Cole is available on a Navy Web site at www.spear.navy.mil/ships/ddg67

    President Bill Clinton was expected to talk to reporters about the bombing later Thursday morning. A spokesman said the president was “obviously horrified” and had ordered officials to “do everything possible to find those responsible.”



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  2. PhiSlammaJamma

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    My thoughts are with the families first and foremost.

    In regards to the attack. I don't think this attack would normally warrant a response. Not because it wasn't brutal and inhuman, but because it was expected and occured in a hostile environment. These types of situations seem to be handled more or less without a major response. I'm not surprised that IRAQ would commit the act, but I'm surprised about the timing of it. Why attack near an election? They know very well that the U.S. will retaliate during an election period. Khadafi attacked during an election. We naturally retaliated. He paid the price. It's almost a given that their will be a response.


    So, knowing we will retaliate, why attack? Why would IRAQ knowingly open up an interaction? That is my question. Something about this picture isn't quite right.

    Assuming it is IRAQ of course.

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    [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited October 12, 2000).]
     
  3. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    Maybe Clinton will let Gore press the button?
     
  4. ArtVandolet

    ArtVandolet Member

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    The irony ... the best defense boat in the world, nearly sunk by 2 men in a raft.

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  5. MoonsOverMyHammy

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    Both Kennedy and Lincoln had third Cousins named Cole......

    Lincoln's 3rd cousin Law, Cole S. went on to patent the the formula for AJAX.

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  6. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    sonofabitch stupidass persiangulfians

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  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    According to the rules of engagement, geneva convention, NAMBLA, NAFTA, NATO ... one of them stupid-ass peace treaties, Americans are not allowed to fire unless fired upon, even if they have a weapon pointed at you and threaten to fire upon you. Its some crazy BS over there.
    SAD SAD SAD!!!



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  8. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    FYI -- They are now saying that it may not have been a zodiac, but one of the "local" boats that was helping to moor the ship. The president has ordered all US warships out of port.

    One interesting note -- which makes you wonder how well this was planned. If someone wanting to initiate hostilities had to pick one ship to damage, this would be it.

    Carrier groups usually have two Aegis capable ships, a Ticondaroga class ship for close in defense, and a guided missile destroyer, in this case, the Cole. The destroyer would play shortstop, on the shore (threat) side of the battle group, and would probably have a good part of the group's Tomahawk Cruise missiles.

    Whoever did this temporarily eliminated a third of the group's air-to-air missiles, and maybe half of the cruise missile threat. Not to mention one of the two biggest ship radars in the carrier group, the one that would be closer to shore.

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  9. Mango

    Mango Member

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    I think they took the most available target and had no long term strategic aims against a carrier group.

    The flip side is that every American plane and ship in the region will be on a higher level of awareness and that will offset the loss of the destroyer from the group. Undoubtedly, some other ship as been reassigned to the group.

    Why does your initial post mention "at the entrance to the Persian Gulf" and then correct itself later?

    Mango

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    [This message has been edited by Mango (edited October 12, 2000).]
     
  10. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    Cut and paste -- and I don't think the MSNBC reporter was very good. There are several inconsistencies in the stories.

    There's no way that one of the area "troublemakers" could really threaten a US carrier battle group. What I meant wast that they could have targeted the Cole as a offensive threat -- to remove it's Tomahawk missiles; and to remove the ability of the battle group to project it's defensive anti-air "bubble" forward of the battle group, and shield other potential targets.

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  11. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Don't you think that another ship with somewhat similar capabilities is being rerouted to the Persian Gulf area?

    Since you have knowledge of military matters,
    doesn't the Dept of Defense have contingency plans for such situations?

    How many carrier groups are currently deployed and what are their general patrol areas? Couldn't a ship from a carrier group operating in a less hostile area be assigned
    to the Persian Gulf?

    Mango

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  12. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    I'm no great expert. I just kind of a naval buff, and find the whole subject kind of fascinating.

    I don't know that that particular ship was targeted, but if you were going to pick one, our latest model of guided missile destroyer is probably a good choice. I'm sure any area government (like Iraq) would be well aware of the capabilities, and they are saying it looks like an organized, prepared attack. They wouldn't mind limiting our cruise missile ability for a few weeks.

    No it wouldn't cripple US forces, but it could make it more difficult for them to react to other attacks. Iraq has been flexing it's muscles, during a time when they percieve the US to be weakened (because of the approaching elections, and other area commitments). They wouldn't mind us being short a few Tomahawks.

    Or, it could just be terrorists, who didn't care which ship was targeted, as long as it has USS next to it.


    I'm sure the DOD has contingency plans, but our navy is to the point where every ship is precious -- even the little ones. The navy is half the size it was in the Regan era, and we haven't lost a major combatant in a long time. We are trying to respond to a dozen brushfires at once, so the navy is stretched awfully thin. If another ship is avilable, it could take at least 1-2 weeks to travel to the area, and that would mean pulling it away from another assignment.

    The navy has about 318 ships, including 12 aircraft carriers. They have 29 Aegis Destroyers, and 27 Aegis Cruisers. Their normal cycle is 3 months in maintenance, 3 months in training and workup, and 3 months deployed, meaning at best, we have about 100 ships on duty at a time, including 3-4 carriers. The ships also have to spend significant time in deep overhaul -- we usually have one carrier in deep overhaul, which can last up to 3 years to refuel a nuclear reactor. Even to get as many as 100 ships deployed, we cut back on training and maintenance.

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    [This message has been edited by dc sports (edited October 12, 2000).]
     
  13. Mango

    Mango Member

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    This reminds me of the USS Stark attack. Hard to imagine that was over 13 years ago.

    Mango

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    [This message has been edited by Mango (edited October 12, 2000).]
     
  14. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    You are right -- that's a great comparison. It will be interesting to see if Iraq is also responsible for this bombing -- and if this illicits the same kind of outrage.

    The big difference, politically, is that this one is right before an election, which will give the final days of the Clinton/Gore admistration very little time to show they can deal with it. This could deffinitely affect the coming election.


    FYI -- The US Navy website, www.navy.mil, has info on its ships' current assignments.

    The 101 ships deployed are split between the Atlantic and Pacific. We currently have the 5th fleet and the USS Abraham Lincoln in the Adriatic Sea, the 6th fleet with the USS George Washington in the Mediterranean, and the 7th fleet based around the USS Kitty Hawk is our sole deployed carrier group assigned to the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

    The 5th fleet, to which the Cole was assigned, seems to actually be pretty well equipped. It has 2 Aegis Cruisers, 3 other Aegis Destroyers, and two less capable guided missile frigates. They provide coverage for a carrier group, an amphibious group, three fleet replenishment ships, and any other ships in the area. They also have two standard destroyers, 3 amphibious ships, and four anti-mine ships in the group/area.

    The nearest other group, the 5th fleet, in the Mediterranean, has a cruiser, two standard destroyers, and one guided missile frigate protecting a similar sized force.

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    [This message has been edited by dc sports (edited October 12, 2000).]
     
  15. ArtVandolet

    ArtVandolet Member

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    I don't foresee anyone raising their hand reguarding responsiblity of this act. Past experience has shown it's not wise ... best to just go sucker punch, then snicker.

    While it could be Iraq, I see this more like something Ben Lauden (sp) would do. It has to have local country involvement and I only see Syria as someone willing to help Iraq and take on the risk (and even that is questionable). Ben Lauden has $$$ and no real ties other than against the "Great Satan" which would find more support. Cause and $$$ for bribes who may not be sold on the cause.

    A couple of side notes:
    What kind of explosive would be able (light weight and not noticeable on a raft) to cause that kind of explosion. C4?

    Hammer me if you will, but I think it's time to stop the no-fly zone Iraq. I don't see how that is accomplishing anything at this point (but costing us $$$ and middle east relationships). The middle east may not be so against us if we didn't put our troops into every available country. It is important to maintain stablity in the region, but I'm not sure our constant presense adds to the stability or takes away from it. Would we want some constant foreign presense in our country? I don't think it would take long for resentment to set in. I think most countries know that if anything were to happen, we'd be there in a flash and ready to kick some major butt.

    As another note: Thanks to all who have/are serving our country!

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  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    sorry, it wasn't the same city. But same country.

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  18. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    We have carriers named after Kennedy and Lincoln. In fact, ten carriers have been named after US presidents: Kennedy, Lincoln, Eisenhower, both Roosevelts, Lincoln, Washington, Truman, and Regan, plus on senator John Stenis. All of these men, except for Regan, are now dead, and that his ship has not been completed yet. (Of course, he survived an assasination attempt.) Coincidence?


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  19. MoonsOverMyHammy

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    "USS Abraham Lincoln in the Adriatic Sea"

    Kennedy had a neighbor named Adrian, hmmm......

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