I'm impressed with the joint effort of presidents Bush sr. and Clinton. I am just watching the interview with Larry King. Damn, that Clinton can talk, he is so charismatic. I know a lot of people do not like him, but I think he is very impressive.
I work in Iraq and am currently in Baghdad and I voted for George Bush. I am just glad that people like glynch and cohen are in a dwindling by the day minority and that I don't have to listen to their BS anymore. I haven't read anything in this forum in about a year and it only took the first click of my mouse to know why.
Dwindling? I guess you don't get much news over there. A growing majority of Americans now realize the colossal mistake Iraq was and that the results are not worth the cost 56 Percent in Survey Say Iraq War Was a Mistake Stay safe.
Oh, did Bush send those in in the first few days after the Tsunami? If not, don't waste my time with irrelevant posts.
i'm just curious...not trying to pick a fight...has you opinion on this topic changed any as time has passed with the relief efforts?
And I'm glad we been saved from your BS .. up until now atleast. Are you even aware of what my argument is? If you cannot respond to the issue at hand, then stay the hell out.
My opinion is that Bush missed an opportunity early on. Bush's actions now cannot change that because the opportunity was time-sensitive and has passed. Now he's sending/involving the Sec of State, his brother, his father, and another ex-President ... I think he now 'get's it'. Think about it, he did nothing for several days, now he's pulling no punches. He knows he made a mistake, now he's recognized that and doing everything he can to recover. I'll give him credit for that. With what's he done now, he may be able to ameliorate much of his early damage. I've always felt that our government's and nation's relief efforts we would ultimately reach acceptable levels. I did not naively think that the early amounts were indicative of our ultimate assistance, and I argued that in another thread also, early on. I never supported the thread title, but I did support the argument that he was embarassing on his delayed response.
Look, why don't you who want to defend Bush from every criticism get it? All Presidents have their strengths and weaknesses. Bush's clear and undeniable weakness is just about anything pertaining for foreign policy and diplomacy. He consistently blunders there, you only need look at polls from ALL around the world and the difficulties between us and some of our closest longterm Allies. He can take steps to resolve errors he makes, but that will never be as good as being the leader of the free world and not making the blunders to start with.
interesting...are there any reasons for that late response, Cohen, that might make sense? again...not arguing, just wondering. i'm with you...there is both an incredible opportunity and responsibility to overwhelm these people with compassion and support.
What opportunity was missed early on? The opportunity to show the world that we could give more money early on and look good? It's only been one week. What could have really been done with all of that money between then and now that hasn't been done?
Originally posted by MadMax interesting...are there any reasons for that late response, Cohen, that might make sense? again...not arguing, just wondering. I can come up with good reasons for not committing a bunch of money from at the very start ... until we are aware of the needs ... but I could not understand not taking a break from his holiday vacation to hold a press conference and promise full support (along with dispatching at least some naval and air resources by the second day). i'm with you...there is both an incredible opportunity and responsibility to overwhelm these people with compassion and support. This was not just an opportunity to save lives, but change the errorneous (and extremely one-sided) impression many across the world, and esp in this region and religion, have of the US. For some, no matter what we do now, they can belittle even the significant assistance we provide by arguing that we were shamed into it. And FWIW, I don't think that Bush lacks compassion. I don't think badly of him on a personal basis. I just think that he doesn't have what it takes to be a... arguabll 'the' world leader.
the tsunami was the 26th. the navy has been in the area since saturday, january 1, just 5 days later. given that they sailed from diego garcia, 2000 miles away, i'd say they were dispatched pretty damned quickly. but perhaps W was too busy to issue a press release trumpeting his efforts... your laughable criticism that those of us who support bush are blind to his shortcomings is all the more ironic/moronic when you and glynch attempt to create a sense of outrage over bull**** like this.
If we hate 'them' or think they are irrelevant then why would we feel shame? My take: He did apparently immediately dispatch teams to assess the scope of the problem and redirect a naval task force to assist. Intially announcing $35 in aid and then bumping it doesn't seem unsound since the first news did not correctly assess the damage, ie first reports were of 10,000 dead - then 30,000 - now well over 100,000. The development aid thread is just a straw man for this particular incident. We do quite a lot with disaster aid. Should he have expressed support? Yes. It wouldn't have hurt and wouldn't have helped, but its what he is supposed to do.
Pledges of support generally make for good PR, but often fail to materialize, it seems. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=88909eb1-d510-4716-9e80-41edf3e3d520 Will donors pay up? UN chief voices doubts, noting only a pittance of Iran quake money arrived Steven Edwards and Araminta Wordsworth National Post, with files from Reuters and Agence France-Presse Tuesday, January 04, 2005 CREDIT: AP/Gregory Bull At the UN - Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General, warned yesterday that much of the US$2-billion promised in aid to tsunami victims is unlikely to materialize. He said past disasters have shown governments often fail to make good on their pledges. "If we go by past history, yes, I do have concern ... we've got over $2-billion but it is quite likely that at the end of the day we will not receive all of it," Mr. Annan told a news conference at the United Nations in New York. He gave the example of the city of Bam, Iran, which was levelled by an earthquake on Dec. 26, 2003, exactly a year before the tsunami devastated countries around the Indian Ocean. Foreign governments and organizations promised US$1.1-billion in aid, but by last week, only US$17.5-million had arrived in Iran. The UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) said last night from Geneva it had received pledges of almost US$1.6-billion for tsunami victims. This includes a verbal pledge of US$500-million made by Junichiro Koizumi, the Japanese Prime Minister, on the weekend, but not the US$530-million promised by the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank. But Robert Smith, a spokesman for OCHA, told British newspaper The Guardian: "We should be very cautious about these figures. "Let's put it this way: Large-scale disasters tend to result in mammoth pledges which ... do not always materialize in their entirety. The figures look much higher than they really are. What will end up on the ground will be much less." Added fellow staffer Rudolf Muller, "There is definitely double accounting going on." Mr. Muller added, "A lot of the money will be swallowed up by the military or will have been diverted from existing loans." As Jan Egeland, the UN emergency relief coordinator, told the news conference in New York, "People [in Bam] are frustrated because they still live in temporary shelters." Other disasters have suffered similar disappointment. After floods devastated Mozambique in 2000, more than US$400-million was promised in international aid, but the country's public works minister says less than half was delivered. The record is even worse in the case of Hurricane Mitch, which swept through Honduras and Nicaragua in 1998, killing more than 9,000 people and making three million homeless. Governments promised to send more than US$3.5-billion, while the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and European Union pledged US$5.2-billion. In the end, less than a third of the money was raised, The Guardian reported. The UN put the latest death toll for the tsunami at around 150,000 and warned it could still soar as relief workers were confronted by huge devastated areas without roads, bridges and airstrips. Tonnes of supplies and hundreds of aid workers have poured into the region, using everything from helicopters to elephants to reach remote areas to find and feed survivors and shift the rubble of razed towns. Many airports are now bursting with emergency supplies. But a logistical nightmare looms in distributing them through areas where roads and bridges have been washed away. "The emergency teams are arriving to be blocked by a wall of devastation. Everything is destroyed," Aly-Khan Rajani, CARE Canada's program manager for Southeast Asia, said in Jakarta. Mr. Annan, who is due to launch an aid appeal before regional leaders at a donors conference in the Indonesian capital Jakarta on Thursday, said he believed the attention being paid to the tsunami disaster meant chances were better now that contributors would fulfill a "substantial portion" of their pledges. Even so, "I would not be surprised if we do not get all the money," he added. Donors in Jakarta would be asked for aid to meet an anticipated "few hundred million dollars" in immediate needs, and another pledging conference would be held on Jan. 11 in Geneva as longer-term requirements become available. Yesterday, Mr. Egeland also lamented that some disasters generate far more public reaction than others. "We have 20 parallel catastrophes unfolding," Mr. Egeland said, highlighting massacres in Sudan's Western Darfur region and the continuing killings in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo. "Here is my criticism of the West: Couldn't we wake up to the forgotten emergencies as we have woken up to the tsunami?" And because the disaster fell so close to the start of 2005, he fears it could sap the response to other calamities that strike later in the year. "The pie is finite. You take out a slice and there is less for the rest," he said. "I am afraid for the coming year."
Maybe this is of interest: Germany plans massive boost to tsunami aid-Schroeder 04 Jan 2005 19:43:31 GMT Source: Reuters (recasts, adds Schroeder) BERLIN, Jan 4 (Reuters) - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said on Tuesday Berlin would increase its planned aid to the Asian tsunami victims, but did not confirm a report it would rise to as much as 500 million euros ($680 million). A government source earlier told Reuters Germany would boost its present contribution of 20 million euros to the relief effort to 500 million. The cabinet was due to meet on Wednesday to discuss the increase. Schroeder told Germany's ARD television: "Tomorrow I will suggest a sum to the cabinet which will show we want to be involved in the long term, and the sum will be much higher than offered at present." "It will be a significant sum, and speculation about how high it will be is not completely wrong but I don't want to confirm anything," Schroeder said, adding the 20 million euros made available for immediate help, was not sufficient to fund long-term redevelopment. "We cannot abandon people in affected areas either now or in the future," he added. To date, the largest contributor to the tsunami aid effort is Japan, which has offered $500 million, followed by the United States with $350 million. Some 60 Germans are known to have died in the disaster, which claimed around 150,000 lives by latest estimates. More than 1,000 German tourists are still unaccounted for. Schroeder said European governments should negotiate with countries such as Indonesia and Sri Lanka to set up partnerships on aid projects and find areas on which to focus. "Germans' excellent willingness to donate can only be maintained long term if it is clear which projects they are funding." "We want to help in as concrete and visible a way as possible...we want to contribute to something lasting." Germany has already sent technical experts to the region to assess requirements and has dispatched a navy hospital ship which is expected to arrive in Sumatra early next week. German charities report they have received donations of around 96 million euros to support the relief effort. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L0485559.htm
what i'm wondering is how much bin laden, al queda, the whole middle east, and any other islamic nation or peoples have donated to help their Islamic bretheren in Indonessia? hardly a G*ddamn thing, that's how much. those people are f*cking pathetic. they murder innocent people by the boatload in the name of Muslim brotherhood, all the while their sworn enemy and it's people swarm to the need of their own people. i hope those scum rot in hell.
