Bring back Francis! Please!

rocket3for life2:

wow! missed that one. surprised no-one took you up on your original offer and "named you" - that is rather a risky request around here.

 

TMac and Francis are not in the same company. I have watched both players for about five years, Francis more. TMac's overall skill level is far superior. Francis is an excellent rebounder, maybe better, but that is about it. TMac is a better ball handler, passer, shooter, and defender. Both are explosive leapers. TMac has far superior court vision. He appears to be a better decision-making, but this is difficult to access.

It is interesting that based on recent developments in Orlando, the glitter has somewhat worn off of Francis. According to the Magic's coach (Yahoo Sports Report, yesterday) the team is not protecting the ball, making ill-advised passes, and making poor decisions in general. (sound familiar?) The Orlando BBS is posting comments about Francis' over dribbling, showboating, etc. Check it out for yourself. (several of these comments have been posted here in recent days)

The Rockets need some help, but I would certainly not want Francis back. The Rockets are a mess right now, but Francis was given five years and the result was .500 and one "early exit" playoff appearance. The current Rockets have had only a third of a season together and not even with the same players.

 

Yao + Mo for Odom + Mihm + Butler + 1st rounder

Problem solved.

 

Speaking of trading Steve....are you going to pay off the tip jar bet you made with aelliot, myself and others?

http://bbs2.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76037&perpage=30&pagenumber=2

Pay up!

 

I really need to stay the hell out of the GARM. :|

Seeing these posts every other thread, the back and forth each and every thread, it never stops, nor will it ever stop, but jesus CHRIST, we're at .500, the team is starting to gel, can we GIVE IT A REST for a few weeks. "Trades, rants and rumor threads make Mig something something."
Go crazy?

DON'T MIND IF I DO

 

Sorry Francis says NO.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/02/sports/basketball/02hoops.ready.html

In Orlando, Francis Finds Another Fresh Start
By HOWARD BECK

Published: January 2, 2005

Steve Francis surveys his winding career path and concludes, earnestly, that being traded was the best thing to happen to him. Twice.

Francis, a gifted point guard, forced the first deal when he refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies, the team that drafted him in June 1999. Vancouver shipped him to the Houston Rockets two months later.

The second deal was forced upon Francis, over his initial objections. Given the chance to obtain a box-office star, Tracy McGrady, the Rockets sent Francis to Orlando in a multiplayer deal last summer.

Five years and two blockbuster deals later, Francis is counting his blessings. Again.

He is on pace for career highs in points (22 a game) and assists (6.9). His stellar play, combined with the return of Grant Hill, has transformed the Magic from moribund to marvelous.

"This is like the second-best basketball thing ever to happen to me," Francis said last week. "Getting traded from Vancouver to Houston, that was the best thing to happen. And then this. It not only revived me, but revived spirits and other players."

Francis says he loves playing with Hill, who is healthy and thriving again after a series of ankle operations. Francis's best friend in Houston, Cuttino Mobley, went with him to Orlando in the McGrady trade. And Francis has a coach, Johnny Davis, who has given him some freedom and room to breathe.

Those items were apparently in short supply in the Rockets' locker room. Francis insisted that he never fought with Coach Jeff Van Gundy, but he clearly never felt comfortable with him.

"The coach here treats you like you're a player; he treats you like a man," Francis said, comparing Davis with Van Gundy. "He doesn't try to walk around like he's hot stuff. In Houston, that was a problem. He thought he was bigger than the players."

A lot has gone wrong in Houston since the Francis trade. Pairing McGrady with center Yao Ming was supposed to make the Rockets a power. But they are just 15-15, sagging under the weight of expectations.

They have yet to find a suitable replacement for Francis and have cycled through three starting point guards - Charlie Ward, Tyronn Lue and Bob Sura. In the past two weeks, they have traded for two shooting guards with ball-handling skills, Jon Barry and David Wesley. The Wesley deal cost them a highly regarded prospect, Bostjan Nachbar, and their best 3-point shooter, Jim Jackson.

Orlando has become one of the feel-good stories of the season.

After finishing a league-worst 21-61 last season, the Magic is again a contender in the East. Francis, Mobley and Hill form one of the most potent threesomes in the league.

Francis views Hill as the veteran mentor he never had in his early years in Houston. Hakeem Olajuwon kept himself at a distance. Charles Barkley, needless to say, was no role model. By Francis's third season, each was gone, and Francis was the team captain at age 24.

"Being around Grant has matured me, as a person and as a basketball player," Francis said. "Shot selection, off the court, the way I dress and just being a professional about everything."

Hill, one of the most respected veterans in the league, is just as pleased with the partnership, calling Francis "one of the best teammates I've ever had."

He admittedly was not sure what to expect, given that Francis initially developed a bad reputation when he forced his way out of Vancouver.

"He's been a pleasant surprise," Hill said. "His play on the court speaks for itself."

 

Attention, everyone who went on and on about how Stevie and the Magic were kicking a$$ and might be the best team in the East, and how the Rockets sucked and were lottery-bound...

The records as of today:

Magic 15-13

Rockets 15-15


Some of you seemed a little too enthusiastic about the early season records. Hope you're coming back to earth now regarding this trade.

 

I'm glad we now see what the true motivation for your thread is. Unfortunately, you've got several problems with your deduction that it's "the system".

Francis and Mobley are now in a system that they prefer and have said so openly in the press. They've replaced journeyman Jim Jackson with future HOF'er Grant Hill, they've replaced Mo Taylor with Dwight Howard the #1 overall pick in the draft, they've replaced Bostjan Nachbar with a Hedo Turkoglu who has tons of playoff experience and a Spurs championship ring, they obtained a windfall backup PG when Jameer Nelson inexplicably fell to #20 in the draft, they get 15 solid mpg from Pat Garrity who played 22 total minutes the prior season...

The Rockets on the other hand went to China, were minus a starter in Sura, severely overestimated Charlie Ward's ability to contribute, have had career worst shooting years from both Juwan Howard and Mo Taylor (and a very down year from Jackson), had a brutal initial road schedule, are struggling for team chemistry...but have managed to climb back into the WC playoff picture.

Steve and Cuttino have taken intact 60% of a WC 7th seed that was among the leagues best defensive teams and had a .549 winning percentage....had all of the above mentioned favorable circumstances (Hill, D. Howard, Hedo, etc., etc.)....moved to the Leastern Conference and have .536 winning %age including a loss to CHA plus the Magic are ranked among the leagues worst in team defense...

Yep, it must be the "system".

 

Orlando has lost 6 of their last 8 games, saw the game they played last night against the Bulls. They got whacked, Franchise and Mobley still the same old selves plenty of TOs and ISO plays. ha,ha!!!!

 

What CD should gamble for the trade is :

SF, Cat, Cato, MoT, +

for

T-mac, Grant Hill, Drew Gooden

Rox takes Grant Hill out of Orlando's hand. Since Orlando never knows if Grant Hill can play or not at the time, they are willing to throw in Gooden and take back MoT (if not, then Spoon)

For Rox, If Grant Hill can play, it would be great, if not, his salary will come out of the book in a year plus you get rid of MoT's salary.

The projected starting lineup at the beginning of the season:

Yao
Gooden/Spoon
Grant Hill or JJ if Grant Hill can't play
T-mac
Whoever

The team will look good now.

 

i'm sorry but the last game should say a lot about whether or not the tmac/francis trade should have been done.

you take away yao for a whole game and I had no doubt in my mind that Mcgrady would step up and carry the whole team.

You think francis and mobley could have done the same?

basically I trust the ball in Mcgrady's hands in about a 1/3 of the season moreso than i had ever trust it with francis' in the years he's been here.

 

Did you know if that was ever offered? Good. I thought so.

And what if Hill had went down again? You basically traded away 80% of our starting lineup banking on a hope (on Hill's ankle) and a dream (that Gooden might actually do something)

 

Hyperbole's so pointless. The Rockets' season has been less than a success, but why say "terrible" when the team is at .500?

 

Foundation of champions also don't get destroyed by Chicago. On a side note, how quickly people forget how badly the 1995 Rockets played. Also, Chicago lost to a, I believe, Vancouver the year the Bulls won a championship. And Vancouver had only been in the league for a few years so maybe people need to chill on ripping a championship foundation until they have a season to play together.

 

Francis' Orlando team is no better then the Rockets of last year. And that is while playing in a weaker conference this year.

 

Magic wanted to get rid of Grant Hill for a long time, nobody thought he would be able to come back. Gooden's value to Magic is not that high because Magic would draft either Okafor or Dwight anyway.

But no team DARE to take Grant Hill just to get Gooden, no way.

For Rox, to trade for Hill is mainly a cap move to get rid of MoT's contract. It is a gamble Rox could take. For Magic, it would be a blessing to get rid of Hill, they will take it for sure.

 

How do you do it salary wise?

Yao is on rookie scale, T-mac has more than the Max. I suppose Rox would have to at least throw in Cat, Cato to match the salary, and your starting lineup is gone.

What Rox could do is to trade for T-mac and G. Hill and dump SF, Cat, Cato, MoT (or Spoon) to Magic. Hill's salary comes off the book in one year, Rox takes one year hit, gains salary flexibility.
Think about it, no need to deal with J. Howard and MoT's salaries would help Rox dramaticially.

 

4ever-

I think you are missing the point(s) that a lot of Francis haters still stand by:

A. Francis (and the Rockets) had peaked as constructed...

It had become painfully obvious that the team of last year was about as good as it was ever going to be unless Yao became another Olajuwon. Since Yao is still here, his part of the equation remains unchanged, meaning unless the Rockets were willing to wait for the internal improvement that could only come from Yao, something else had to be done. And so what if we go back into the lottery for another year or two? Are you forgetting that the lottery was Francis' home for 4 out of the 5 years he was here?

B. Tmac is a legit franchise player, of which there are only about 10-12 in the entire league...

Regardless of the other pieces involved, the opportunity to add a top 10 player (top 5?) just entering the prime of his career comes along once in a blue moon. Just as the Astros are willing to do whatever it takes to keep Beltran, I applaud the Rockets for doing whatever it took to acquire Tmac. Talent like his is extremely rare, and IMO, Tmac alone is worth Francis, Mobley and Cato. There are dozens of 6'4" SG's who average 15 PPG, play good defense and hustle, just as there are a dozen 6'10" C's who rebound, block some shots and have hands of stone. There is only one 6'9" SG/SF who is a two time scoring champion and is neck-and-neck with Kobe and LeBron as the premier swingman in the NBA.

C. While JVG may deserve the blame for this year and last year, it was all Francis the first 4 years he guided us into the lottery...

While I agree that JVG needs to go, even you must concede that he had absolutely nothing to do with this team underachieving for 4 years under the guidance of Stevie Franchise. In fact, his arrival coincided with Francis' first (and only) playoff appearance, so if you want to give anyone credit for that, I think Jeff is more deserving than Steve. If not, why couldn't Francis manage just one measly postseason in four tries?

Sorry, please continue jocking Francis like Ahmad Rashad on Jordan's nuts.

 

We wouldnt have gotten Tmac if Yao were not here.