Damn, this is ugly! U.N. Report: Women Worldwide Get Raw Deal By Lyndsay Griffiths LONDON (Reuters) - Women the world over get a raw deal in comparison to men, whether through physical abuse, double standards or discrimination, the United Nations said Wednesday. In its annual report, the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) said that rape, abuse and bad laws are just some of the barriers oppressing women, with no country free of prejudice. According to the report at least one in three women has been beaten, raped, coerced into sex or abused in some way -- usually by someone she knows. When it comes to contraception in Japan or education in Pakistan, women remain the world's second-class citizens. ``Discrimination and violence against women and girls remain firmly rooted in cultures around the world and I feel sick that I have to justify why girls should be educated. They are half the population of the world. It's their right,'' Nafis Sadik, UNFPA's executive director, told Reuters in an interview. Men Need Help Too But Sadik, a doctor by training, said attacking men was the easy option, and the modern solution to an age-old problem was to get the other half involved in the global fight for equality. ``The rhetoric against men is easy. But we also have to find a way to work on them and with them,'' she said. ``We must find good partners, those men in communities, religious groups, at the national level, who do want to change and find ways to support them. Men need help too.'' But not as much as women. According to the annual report on the state of the population, ``Lives Together, Worlds Apart,'' everything from health care to human rights lags when it comes to women. It said: --One woman dies every minute from complications of childbirth and pregnancy. --In the United States, a woman is battered every 15 seconds. --Sexually transmitted diseases afflict five times more women than men, with an estimated 333 million new cases a year. --At least 60 million girls who would otherwise be alive are ``missing'' from the global population due to sex-selective abortions, neglect and infanticide. --At least 130 million women have been forced to undergo genital mutilation or cutting, while thousands of young women die in ``honor'' killings every year. --Each year, 2 million girls aged from 5 to 15 enter the commercial sex market. Things Can Only Get Better But Sadik said things were improving. ``For a long time governments were paying lip service. But there has been tremendous progress. All governments now accept the importance of getting women into all aspects of life and a lot is happening,'' she said. ``But it's only a beginning. This all has to trickle down to the consciousness of the individual, which will not happen overnight.'' Sadik said parts of Africa were the worst places to be born female. ``The worst place, I think, would be southern Africa,'' she said. ``I was quite appalled at the way women were treated. And northern Nigeria -- I would hate to be a girl there.'' She quoted a survey she said highlighted the plight of hundreds of thousands of child brides in northern Nigeria who were abandoned after pregnancy had ruptured their bodies. Young girls, leaking with urine, languished outside a hospital in Kano, deserted by their aging husbands, she said. ''It's a sad sight.'' In Japan, she said, women were denied access to the contraceptive pill for 30 years while men had to wait just four months before regulators approved sex-enhancing Viagra. ``All over the world, except in perhaps the Nordic countries, women still earn less for doing the same job and there are fewer women in positions of authority,'' she said. ``Women's second-class status carries a financial and social cost, and not just for women. Men, and society in general, also pay a price.'' ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Sadly, I am going to go for the easy joke and say: That poor woman. On a serious note, it takes a long time to change entrenched culture, and in so many cultures, women are looked upon as second-class citizens at best (or oftentimes as property). I agree with this Sadik person that it probably does no good to simply attack men. Doing so can backfire by causing men to be less receptive to the need for change. Telling me that it's my fault that women are treated poorly because I am a man isn't going to get me to go help. Showing me the problem and seeing me as part of the solution can get me (and others of my ilk) on board, though. ------------------ Houston Sports Board DFW Sports Board
I've always wonder at what level can we 'force' our values on others. While I could say that we should take care of the women here. . . . I don't know how or should we should try to abroad. Other than Lip Service I think sanctions etc maybe a bit . . . wrong. like base bribery/extortion. I don't know if we have the right to do such things. To deny these countries various goods until they ACT LIKE US is not exactly kewl with me. Confusion about the whole issue on an internation scale. Omen River ------------------
I guess this falls under the category of "American man, heal thyself." I certainly wouldn't preach to another culture because they have to learn in their own time and the best way to teach is by example. But, in America, we have little excuse. I understand the reaction that says, "Don't blame me! I don't beat women." I feel that too as a man. But, at some point, men as a gender have to stand up and say that women deserve the same rights and priveledges as all of us. When it is unaccpetable for a man to beat a woman or rape her or whatever because other men say so, we will see a dramatic change in our behavior and attitude. It takes all of us deciding to change and putting our pride to the side to face issues like this. A favorite saying I've heard goes, "The most dangerous thing a woman can do is have a boyfriend." With statistics like the one's above, that isn't so far from the truth. By the way, one stat not pointed out because it deals with men is that 1 in 5 men are sexually molested by the age of 13. The number for women is 1 in 3. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff, Although I don't want to supply an "excuse", I have an opinion as to "why" this happens. Humans are a species of animal. (My personal religious beliefs say we are different than animals, but I say only in the fact that we can have a relationship with God, whereas other animals cannot.) But, physically, biologically, molecularly, etc... we are animals. In nature, there is almost always a dominant norm, whether it be female (praying mantis, black widow spider, tortioses, and some fish ... I think) or male. And, in each species this domination is exhibited through aggressive actions. The most similar animal genetically to humans is the chimpanzee, and this same dominance is obvious with them and other primates. I think it is instinctual. Of course we have an intellect much much more developed than any other animal on the planet, but these basic instincts are still present. I'm not condoning: beating women, or keeping women servile, or anything like that. I'm just saying that there is a genetic disposition for the dominant member of a species to, well, dominate. I also feel that we as humans should try to overcome these tendencies to make equality our goal. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
It's got to be mentioned that men and women are in fact different - and this should mean that equality does not mean that men and women are exactly the same. If asked, I would call myself a feminist (even though I'm male... weird huh?) - simply because I believe that women should be able to walk the streets at night and have the same feeling of security that a man has. Having said that, I DO believe that men and woman are created different and are better at different things. DREAMer; isn't it biblical that men and woman are different? Isn't the man supposed to "work the ground" and the woman be the supporter? So man is the leader and woman the helper? I think a lot of people use that sort of view and then distort it to say that woman should do whatever man says. Unfortunately that shows that the men just aren't doing their job right! I agree with Jeff! Let's not shy away from being supportive of women! Let's stand up for them and make sure they are entitled to the security they deserve! If men are allowed to do whatever they want with women, then we are no better than beasts... ------------------
First of all, I seriously question the statistics quoted in the above article as I do not know the reason they were gathered, nor what, in their opinion, constitutes being "sexually coerced", molested, or abused. That being said, I too feel that, on a global level, women are horribly mistreated in society dominated by men. On a national level, I think any woman living in the United States should feel extremely fortunate that they don't live in 90% of other nations in the world. We have made enormous strides in women's rights in the last century, and our nation's conciousness is becoming more and more aware every day of society's treatment of women....some times to a rediculous extreme. That is not to say that rape and marital abuse do not occur very often here. Of course they do. The fact of the matter is, assholes are everywhere. Pardon my French. In a nutshell, I believe that too much attention is being payed to the evils of sexual harrassment, and not nearly enough is being payed to marital abuse. Our priorities are seriously out of whack. When you are not allowed to tell a female coworker that she looks good today, but you can still go home and slap your wife for not having dinner ready without fear of retribution, something is seriously wrong. Going back to the "coerced into sex" stat...what exactly does that mean? If I were to ask a woman to sleep with me and she said "yes", is that not coercing someone into sex? I take exception to the phrasing of that statement. I'm not saying that the stats above aren't true. I'm sure they do have truth to them...from a certain perspective. What you have to take into account is that stats have ways of being manipulated. I simply can't take them at face value. I do, however, agree that it is a serious problem that demands everyone's, including myself, attention. ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
I think coercing someone into having sex is like offering them benefits if they sleep with you. For example, a promotion is on offer at a workplace and there are 2 people going for the job. The employer hints that it may be beneficial for the female if she sleeps with him..... Or think of the "casting couch".... ------------------
I thought things like using emotional abuse to convice women to sleep with you was also considered coercing sex. Also, I would suppose that getting a woman drunk or high in order to have your way with her would also fall into the coersing sex more than anything else. But since they don't define it in the article, I guess we don't know specifically what they mean by that. ------------------ Houston Sports Board DFW Sports Board
I think Coerved is a deceptive term am I COERCED to work? *sigh* I think some things such as SEX OR YOUR FIRED is wrong I feel SLIPPING HER A MICKEY is wrong but someone drinking and drugging of their own free will . .then they get it on . .or SEX FOR PROMOTION . . . . I'm gray . . because i think personal Responsibility comes into play. I think someone said it before Equal and the SAME is not the same. The problem with MEN vs WOMEN in this country is simple. . . There is no *ECONOMIC* incentive to uplift women. in Fact in the short term it is better for a Man's Economy to keep them in a state of subjugation. Money is power and men are more comfortable with Powerful men than powerful women [The devil you know vs the Devil you don't know] Also . . I think it is similar with other Minorities. . .the subconcious idea that once in power . . these groups may WANT A LITTLE PAYBACK!! For all the Rapes, For all the lesser pay . . .a fear that Men will be subjected to all the same wrongs and sh*t they did to women is kinda terrifying to most. The transition toward equality is one in which the oppressor must be either shown the benefits of it and have their fears removed. . . . Or the oppressor is simple Overthrown by any means necessary which could get ugly. Rocket River ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rocket River (edited September 21, 2000).]
Reflecting on this topic, I realize that no matter how much change takes place, there will always be evil in this world. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
I think it is an issue of control. Man thinks he is in control of his own destiny, therefore he must control his own destiny, therefore he must control as many things, events, people, etc. as he can. Women are a little different. Women like to know they are taken care of. That plus the fact that they are physically weaker and more driven by emotions makes it easier for a man to manipulate and control them. Statistics say most sex crimes are more about control than sex. I have learned that there is actually very little I can control, and if men in general would learn to accept that and give up this false control that they force on the women around them, gender based crimes would go down tremendously. Unfortunatly, the world is not perfect.
It pains me to see this conversation turn into a semantics discussion: "What does it mean to coerce?" Sounds a lot like, "It depends on what your definition of "is", is." Guys, the bottom line is there are a lot of @#$!ed up men out there who rape, abuse, and otherwise harm women, out of choice or out of ignorance. And, beyond that, in many ways on a societal scale women are treated as less-than-equal. Like the article says, things are getting better, slowly. But there's a long way to go. ------------------
You are right in terms of coercion having a greater meaning than physical force - one could coerce someone into doing something they didn't want to do by means of threat, intimidation, blackmail, etc. And probably that's the way the author meant it. But "rape" is not synonymous with physically forced intercourse because it has a legal definition. "Rape" is a crime in every jurisdiction that I know of, but it can be defined differently. For instance, "statutory rape" is rape, but it doesn't necessarily involve any physical force per se. At one point in our history, forcing one's wife to have sex was not rape. And even looking at the general definition of rape, it's not defined by force, but by lack of consent (thus the "date rape" by means of drugs like rohypnol). Rocket River - to me its not a question of who is accountable. I don't have to be responsible for a problem to want to see it corrected. I agree, it doesn't make sense to hold half the world responsible for acts of .. well not a few, but a smaller fraction of the population. But we can still recognize the problem exists, and that is the first step. ------------------
The Bible says that "women are the weaker vessel". I agree with that on a physical level (with a few exceptions, like our 300 pound lady weightlifter at the Olympics, and some of our softball team). God created men and women differently, for a lot of reasons, which I won't debate right now. I don't think women should be in combat, at least as a foot soldier. They just don't have the physical strength or stamina. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't belong in a combat situation. Intellectually, without getting into the left brain/right brain thing, I believe women to be generally equal to men. More in some cases, less in others. Strongly believe in equal pay for equal work (apples to apples, not relative comparisons). Bottom line, women are fellow human beings, and deserve to be treated with the same respect that we may have for another guy. Two of the best managers I ever worked for were women and I'd work for them again in a NY second. It's all about equality and not being biased because of sex, race, creed, religion, or physical handicap. I just cringe when I read stories in the papers ike the ones this week about a bus driver raping a three-year old, and today about another guy abducting and raping a seven year old. IMO, forcible rape belongs in the capital crimes category! It really tees me off to learn about how some guy took advantage of the fact he was physically stonger than a woman. I've worked all over the world and have seen the kinds of inequality treatment of women that was pointed out in Jeff's article. Africa, the Middle East, the Far East (especially Japan and Korea), and to a lesser extent, the Americas, are the biggest culprits. Will it get better? I don't know, although I would hope it would at least improve in the USA. Cultural change is difficult and slow, and can't be accomplished by fiat from the inept U.N. WE can only try to lead by example. ------------------ "Who Wants To Be A Rocket?" - and probably a millionaire as well. The off-season will be interesting!
The semantics, Sam, are paramount. If you don't know the semantics, how can you have an educated opinion on the subject? The differing definitions of sexual coercian offered above simply prove my point. The article doesn't define it. I think that's on purpose in order to have a certain amount of shock value. I simply must reserve opinion on this topic as it portains to the statistics published above. That leaves nothing but my own opinion, which I've stated. But questioning the importance of the semantics of the situation, in my opinion, seriously devalues the quality of the discussion. ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
I think the Semantics is this alot of MEN *DON'T* Rape, Abuse, etc and alot of men are caught up in a socially ambiguous situations The later two should not be held accountable for the former. Social Ambiguity is a major problem for alot of people. Rocket River ------------------
But in terms of sex, once the sex is physically forced, it is rape. Besides, the definition of coerce includes the use of pressure, threats or intimidation, or to compel someone to commit an act. That really goes beyond straight "force" ------------------ Houston Sports Board DFW Sports Board
