stephen A just said the knicks were offering tim thoma$ and anfernee hardaway and couldn't understand why the raptors wouldn't do it (i assume rose was in there based on the salaries involved). yeah, it saves them $50M according to smith but what do they get out of it? two crappy players who are MASSIVELY overpaid versus two better guys who are massively overpaid and then after two years they have nothing to show for it? at least with this they get 2 draft picks and some defenders not making insane money. taking anything from the knicks not named kurt thomas or jamal crawford is sheer folly. i just got to take another look at the knicks roster and their salaries and it still cracks me up. it's just amazing. houston 17M, marbury and hardaway 14.6, thomas (!) 12 something, and then a bunch of others. they've already got 30 million committed in just two guys (marbury and crawford) like 4 years down the road.
LOL, Jalen Rose traded for draft picks or "younger swingmen"!?!? 1) The Raptors cant even give Rose away much less get something good in return. 2) No young swingman will match Rose's salary for trade purposes. 3) If they did then that means they are probably good and thus wont be traded anyway. The rest of your take is pretty reasonable, but in my opinion you are WAY off base on what Jalen Rose will bring the Raptors. They would trade him for a bag of chips if they could right now. ANYTHING to get from paying him that salary or a salary for lesser years is what they would look to do. But I agree, as it stands right now they wouldnt take on Taylor. Not because of his salary, but because of their overcrowded roster, in particular the 3-4-5 positions.
Deuce, I didn't say a good young swingman, I just said a younger one. I don't think he'll fetch much in a deal at all, but they will be able to get something for him, maybe something that could be bench fodder down the line. A late first or a couple of seconds and/or a younger player who has fallen out of favor (like a Michael Pietrus...not that I'm saying him, but someone of that ilk) isn't entirely unreasonable.
Rose makes over $14 million this year. Name any young player that makes anything close to that amount. I'v said it before and will do so again, the most likely trade for him is for a contract like Mashburn's (retiring, insurance paying 80% until he's officially off the books). Toronto does not have the capital to absorb a payroll over $55 million - they just want Rose gone for financial reasons. Evan
So...now that he doesn't play in Canada anymore, are they going to change his nickname to "Air Continental"?
Boy, the Nets would be set right now if they still had Eddie Griffin. I can't believe they gave up on him so soon.
These two teams have major roster problems at this moment. No one in the forecourt for Brooklyn, too many fours for The Ontarians. More deals have to follow, but for the Nets, with what? For Raps, how do they off-load Jalen + and save $$$?
Okay, so New Jersey got Vince Carter for a pile of trash, some bad contracts, and two first round picks? Where are all the people who keep saying that "these fantasy trades never happen" and why do we not get a deal like that done? How is what the Raptors got better than Mo Taylor, Jimmy Jackson, Lue and two first-round picks?
Come on, while Toronto is at it: Houston trades: PF Maurice Taylor (7.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.7 apg in 25.6 minutes) SF Clarence Weatherspoon (2.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.9 minutes) PF Juwan Howard (7.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.1 minutes) Houston receives: SG Jalen Rose (14.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.2 apg in 31.0 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (10.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: +7.9 ppg, -1.2 rpg, and +0.6 apg. Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (14.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.2 apg in 31.0 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (10.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes) Toronto receives: PF Maurice Taylor (7.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.7 apg in 25.6 minutes) SF Clarence Weatherspoon (2.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.9 minutes) PF Juwan Howard (7.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: -7.9 ppg, +1.2 rpg, and -0.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston and Toronto being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Toronto had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Blazers trade SAR Houston trade Taylor + Spoon + first round pick/s or Clippers trade Brand Houston trade Juwan + Spoon + first round pick/s ...but seriously Mourning isn't trash he'll be back.
Man, I left BGSU this afternoon to come home for Christmas, and I get home after a 2 hour drive and Vince is traded! New Jersey's just gonna be weak in the front court, and if Carter and/or Kidd goes down it's absolutely over for them. As for Toronto, eeeeeew.
Not a chance under the sun. Wilcox may be available, but Brand isn't going anyone -- certainly not for that.
Good call, they were even on a commerical together for Nike last year with their own mini dunk contest.
I think Vince will do just fine in NJ... just last year, he did put up 23/5/5 on a defensive minded team that was one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. With Kidd, Vince could easily avg 25 ppg, with a much higher shooting percentage. Contrary to what a lot of people say, Vince is definitely one of the more clutch players in the league, and when playoff time comes, they are going to be dangerous. I think I'm going to be a nets fan... and toronto, that team is going to be in trouble. What's so great about 2 picks if the team has horrible scouting. eg Grabbing Arroujo with the 8th pick. Blah...
Now Kidd is going to have the ability to double his assists by throwing alley oops to both sides of the court again. That's what Kidd was worried about when he lost Martin. Now he gains that back with Carter, so he will be content at staying with NJ now =)
Stole this from another forum...pretty interesting article. http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/sonics/nba/story/4351987p-4123627c.html Did Carter tip Sonics? FRANK HUGHES; The News Tribune Last updated: December 19th, 2004 02:40 AM Two days before Toronto Raptors general manager Rob Babcock traded Vince Carter to the New Jersey Nets, he was informed that Carter may have tried to sabotage his team in a game a month ago. Whether that information led to Carter being traded Friday for Alonzo Mourning, two other players and two draft picks is unclear. But after being part of trade talks for more than a month, Carter was dealt less than 48 hours after Babcock was interviewed for a story about Carter’s actions Nov. 19. Three members of the Seattle SuperSonics say they believe Carter intentionally tipped off a play during the final minute of the Raptors’ 101-94 loss to the Sonics in Toronto. With 29 seconds remaining in that game and the Sonics leading 97-90, the Raptors called a timeout. After returning to the court, Carter lined up along the edge of the key. He was facing the Sonics’ bench with his hands on his knees. According to a member of the Sonics, before the play began, Carter said directly to the Seattle bench, “It’s a flare. It’s a flare.” Two other members of the Sonics confirmed that Carter told the Sonics bench that the Raptors were running the flare play. The Raptors, inbounding the ball above the Sonics bench, then ran a flare play for Carter. In the play, which Sonics scouts had observed was a common go-to play for the Raptors, Carter worked his way up the key on the near side as Sonics guard Ray Allen followed. At the elbow on the near side, Raptors forward Matt Bonner set a screen on Allen for Carter, who then flared toward the opposite corner. The pass from Morris Petersen was too long for Carter to handle easily, and, unable to make a clean shot attempt, he passed the ball to Bonner, who hit a 22-foot shot from the top of the key. According to one member of the Sonics, the bench reacted immediately to what Carter said, with Sonics players saying, “Did you hear that? Did you see that? That’s (expletive) up.” Another member of the Sonics said he discussed the play with a coach after the game, and the coach said, “If you ever do that, I’ll run you out of the league.” Allen, who was guarding Carter, said: “I didn’t hear it, but that’s what those other guys were saying (after the game), Reggie (Evans) and those other guys. But all I said was, ‘Why would he do that?’ I don’t know why he would do that.” When asked to detail the incident, Evans chose not to discuss specifics. “I don’t want to get involved in that stuff, man,” Evans said. “That stuff is deep. I ain’t scared of Vince or nothing like that, but that is between him and his conscience. I ain’t saying it did happen or it didn’t happen. I’ll leave that for Ray. I’ll let Ray do all that type of talking, man. “For real. I’ll let Ray open his mouth, he is the one ... who got into it with Kobe (Bryant), so I will just leave that alone. I don’t want to get into no beef with nobody.” Carter, reached through Raptors spokesman Jim LaBumbard, responded, “I’m not going to comment on something as ridiculous as that.” Babcock was reached on Wednesday evening and said: “I hadn’t heard that. I would hope that would not be the case, but I am not aware of that. If he did do that, I would be quite upset with that. But I don’t know anything about that. It is nothing I heard. “That’s the type of thing that, if I was aware of it, we would deal with it internally, and we certainly would deal with it. But I am not aware of that. “If something comes up to me like that, and it is solid, and it is obvious that it did happen, we would take care of it internally.” Carter was traded to New Jersey two days later. There are other possible explanations for Carter’s actions. “I guess you could look at it both ways,” Allen said “Either, he was being cocky and saying, ‘I am still going to score,’ or, ‘I don’t want you guys to let me make this shot.’” When asked if Carter was merely being cocky, one member of the Sonics said he did not believe so, pointing out that the Raptors were down seven points late in the game and that Carter had scored only 21 points. Also, when asked if it were possible that Carter could have been trying to decoy the Sonics, the member of the Sonics said, “Sure, but they ended up running the play he told us, so I don’t see how it could have been a decoy.” Asked why Carter would reveal the play, the Sonics member said, “We were all under the impression that he was sabotaging his team because he was getting booed by the fans and he wanted to get traded.” The incident occurred one day after the Raptors and the Portland Trail Blazers were widely reported to be holding trade talks involving Carter. It also came less than a week after Carter and Raptors coach Sam Mitchell got into a spat because Mitchell benched Carter for the entire fourth quarter of a game against Portland after Carter scored just four points in 22 minutes. “Personally, for me it would be disrespecting myself,” Evans said of Carter’s actions. “Players should have more pride than to do things like that. You’re playing for the love of the game. These days, obviously, they are playing for money ... but you still have love for the game. Just balance it out. “It’s crazy because that could be somebody else out there, who wants to win, who wants to make a difference for a coach, somebody like a Damien Wilkins or a Mateen Cleaves who would love to be in that situation to get them over that hump. “Stuff like this just makes the league look bad.” Frank Hughes: 253-597-8742, ext. 6120 frank.hughes@mail.tribnet.com
I have a hard time believing Carter would want to get stripped or blocked or clowned by the Sonics team when and if he told them the final play was going to be run for him. More likely, this is disinformation put out conveniently to allay all the Vince Carter fans in Canada and keep them Raptors fans even though their favorite player has now been traded - not unlike what the Orlando press did to McGrady in order to sell Magic fans on their new team.
I don't think Carter was trying to sabotage the play. The play was run for him (which is the first good reason not to sabotage it), so if he wanted to sabotage it, he could have just missed the shot. Also, down 7 with 30 seconds left means the game is pretty much done and no sabotage is needed. Plus, he told the bench after the timeout, so the information didn't even help the defense; he own defender, Ray Allen, didn't know about it. A possibility is showboating, though if he really wanted to showboat, he'd have told Allen, not the bench; or he'd forget the play and do a little one-on-one (or five, as the case may be). My guess is it came from a bit of despondency, that he felt like it didn't matter anyway, so why not do it.
