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Francis, then and now

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by SamFisher, Dec 14, 2004.

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  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Note, this is based PER and opponent PER ratings:

    2003 under Rudy:

    http://www.82games.com/02HOU2C.HTM

    very productive and good PER, atrocious on defense


    2004 under JVG:

    http://www.82games.com/03HOU4C.HTM

    Offensive efficiency becomes pedestrian, PER is reduced, his defense becomes decent though

    2005 in Orlando:

    http://www.82games.com/04ORL2C.HTM

    Back into the high range on offense, his defense starts to regress (though not as bad as 2003)



    I'm shocked we won as many as we did last year with the kind of dropoff/hindrance effect that the JVG offense had on him. Doesn't make me feel optimistic though.
     
  2. glad_ken

    glad_ken Member

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    I think moving Cato over to the PF spot may have had something to do with us being successful last year. We had that twin towers effect going on defensively, which we really miss this year.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    What good is JVG's focus on defense if the offense suffers as much as the defense gains...all it does is that it makes the game unattractive to watch and that it alienates the fans.

    All that counts are wins. Point differential might be a stat that might be helpful. But opponent fg % says nothing if your own fg % drops just as much or more!
     
  4. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    It's been said all along that Francis is a talent. He is good. Good enough to lead his team to the playoffs every year in the East.

    Can he be better than that?

    Theoretically, the team was better last year because it had more scorers. Offensively, Cuttino is the missing piece. Intangibly, Cato held his own in some key departments (rebounds, blocks, rotation defense).
     
  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I never thought a coach's approach would affect so much of a player's performance, especially star level players. I always believed that star talents should be able to thrive in any "systems."

    After watching JVG ball for 1.25 seasons, I think I might have been wrong. Look at Francis' offense under him. Look at McGrady's offense under him. Look at Yao's offense under him.

    I know Yao's offense is hard to gauge because the only season he had not under JVG was his rookie year. But even as a rookie and with all the adjustment baggage he had, his offense was still much more creative than now.

    I am beginning to worry that McGrady will suffer the same thing like Francis did under JVG. I am still holding my breath. McGrady is much more talented than Francis. Hopefully he has enough star power to breakthrough this "system" thing.
     
  6. francis 4 prez

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    the good thing is francis is showing the jvg effect is not permanent. he got back to being his old self within one offseason. so at least we shouldn't have to worry about tmac and yao being permanently destroyed.
     
  7. dreday

    dreday Member

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    Hopefully it doesn't depend on how long they are under the jvg effect. looking at how the effect is working, this year's batch is highly contagious.
     
  8. Glyyde

    Glyyde Member

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    its JVG :D

    seriously.... Tmac already with 10 games under 20pts thus far... tats 50% of games he played.... last season... 19games under 20pts and he played 63games.....
     
  9. francis 4 prez

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    actually, i think it was 13 out of 67, or basically one in five, compared to the one in two right now.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I wonder what crazy crap JVG is doing to cause this. Maybe he just doesn't run plays for his best players, instead running plays that "get everyone involved."
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    We don't miss it too much, the Rockets are 3rd in opp fg% defense and second in adjusted fg% defense. The loss of Cato's defense is offset by an improvement in PG defense. What we really miss is Cato's rebounding and Cat's offense.
     
  12. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
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    Not really. The improvement in PG defense isn't that much to talk about, according to 82games.com the PER is .9 better than last season, we give up .1 less points per game and .3 less assists per game. You'd think it would be higher since they don't have to do much of anything on offense. The difference in PF defense is something to talk about though, the PER is 3.8 worse, we give up 3 more points, and 1.3 more rebounds. The PER on net production by position is -3.6 at PG, +.4 at SG, +2 at SF, -7.5 at PF, and -1 at C, for a difference of -9.7 compared to last year's team.

    82games.com is funny though. A lot of Francis' stats on there will make you think the Rockets suffered with him on the floor yet somehow he ended up with the best +/- rating among last year's starters. Francis was at +6.3, Yao at +6.1, Jackson at +2.8, Cato at +.4, Mobley was even, and Taylor the 6th man was at -3.8.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Not really.

    Last year Francis' opposing PG had a 16.3 PER, w/ an EFG of 47%.

    This year, opposing PG's have a 15.5 PER w/an EFG of 47%

    That's a negligible difference if any.
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    If Steve Francis had been allowed to play on the US olympic team this year we would have won the Gold Medal.
     
  15. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    yes, because we all know he's a much better cheerleader than lebron and amare combined.
     
  16. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

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    LOL with Larry Brown as coach, he wouldn't have sniffed the floor.
     
  17. cson

    cson Member

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    Francis plays well when his ass or ego is on the line
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Anyone who has watched the Rockets shouldn't even need you to put this in front of them. The Rockets have been lit up by opposing PG's and it hasn't improved with Sura being added. Maybe once Sura gets some more time it will improve.
     
  19. spacepimp

    spacepimp Member

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    What?
     
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    As the starting point guard for the olympic team Stevie's Triple Double per game average would have been all the "cheerleading" the US team would need.

    Larry Brown loves the play of Steve Francis and would have only taken him out of the game if the US had a big lead.

    Stevie would have turned American'ts back into Americans.
     

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