Our hands are tied. We must be creative to build our team in the future. We have to find a way to develop talent. Since we are limited on what we can spend, and who we can draft, we need to trade for potential. We might not be able to spend money on more contracts, but we can spend it on more coaching. I really think we need to pick up this kind of talent. I'd love to get Diop and Wagner. I'd also love to get Chandler and Duhon. These are players that management is giving up on, because they need them to produce early. We can wait. Spend the money on coaches who can teach and develop talent. I know this is long term thinking, and won't win us a championship this or next year, but in another 3 years, this approach could give us the talent to go to the top. Other players, like Kwame Brown, Chris Wilcox, Eddie Curry, Jay Williams, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Tskitshvilli, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Shane Battier, Ronald Murray, Antonio Daniels, Radmanovic, Darko Milicek, etc. Young guys who can grow with this team. They have been thrown into situations where they either don't fit, or aren't getting the training they need, or playing time. Its the reason I wanted us to keep Eddie Griffin. Now you can see why. We need to take guys, have someone take them under their wing, help them grow up, teach them basics and special moves, and develop guys who have talent, helping them fix the thing that has held them back. As fans, we'd have to be patient. We don't need any more superstars. We need well developed role players to go with our two superstars. Since we obtained McGrady, the expectation for this team in the short run has been way too high, from the press and the fans. Yao and TMac are the cornerstones of a championship team, but the rest of the team has to be built around them. Perhaps if we'd have gotten Brent Barry, it would have been different, but we didn't, and the rest of the FA market was way overpriced. I'm glad we didn't sell out our future. I think we made a terrible mistake letting Eddie Griffin go. Perhaps JVG doesn't have the patience to develop a team. We brought him in, because the players were undisciplined, and needed a strong coach. But, now we need some teaching and empowering coaching, even if it comes from assistants. A team needs to be built. I don't know if JVG is the guy to do it. But, it'll come from adding some special talent, like Chicago did when they took on Rodman, and hiring guys like John Lucas and Moses Malone to get the most out of them. We've got to think longer term now... Keep Yao, TMac, Deke and Boki. Everone else has got to go, even if it takes another couple years. Maybe Gaines has potential. But only if we bring in assistants who can develop them, and take some chances on developing guys others don't have time to let grow. And, dangit, why didn't we grab Bo Outlaw when he was such an easy pickup?
agree with Sherlock if this costs us Lue and a 2nd round pick, i'd love to acquire these two, right now we have minimal youth or potential on our squad, the NBA is littered with players who turn it around after a change in teams and chance for more opportunites my only question is will JVG help develop them, right now the team is screaming for better outside shooting, so JVG send Boki to the IR and activates Gaines and plays Bowen..... so i'd take em if they are going cheap, but the bigger question is will they get a chance to play and maybe improve.....
Point by point... Diop/Wagner and Chandler/Duhon is not even a comparison. Here's a Duhon stat- 0-9 when he doesn't start, 4-6 when he does. Duhon's not available, and Chandler has priced himself out of our range by averaging nearly 12 boards a game when they moved him to the bench. Wagner is yet to play 50 games in an NBA season. Diop is yet to average 2.5 points in a season, and has reached double digits once in a 4 year career. In sum, Diop/Wagner is easily attainable; getting either Chandler OR Duhon is probably a reach right now. Juxtaposing them is unfair. Of the players you mentioned- Kwame can be had, but is an upcoming FA with a huge QO, and doesn't get along with his coach. Sounds like a great match with JVG. Attaining Wilcox is difficult because the Clippers play by their own rules. Curry doesn't rebound, play defense, and isn't quick enough to be a 4. Jay Williams was questionable to even walk right again, and reports have linked him with the Rockets. Troy Murphy and Battier signed 6 year extensions before hitting the market. Darius Miles is a career 12% 3 point shooter, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Dunleavy has played 30+ mins the past 2 years- no reason for the Warriors to dump him. Tsika could be had for very little, but he's a FA at year's end anyway, and has shown nothing. Seattle hasn't missed a beat without a Murray, and he's a classic 2 guard in a PG's body. We've pursued Daniels several times, and he's much older than the rest of your list. VladRad is a free agent at year's end, and Seattle is playing great basketball- they have no incentive to alter their team right now. Detroit isn't going to dump Darko for cheap, and it wouldn't be worth it to pay a high price for a guy who's shown zero in the NBA. And of course the obligatory Eddie Griffin mention that must go in any thread involving player movement. Deke and Boki for the longterm? Why pay 5.5 mill for Yao's backup? I don't understand the sentiments on Boki. The guy's supposed to be an offensive player, and it's his 3rd year and has a career high of freaking TWELVE points. In perspective, Gaines has put up 14 points in a game before, and managed 10 in our loss a couple nights ago. Even Dan Langhi put up 17 points in his 2nd season. And I don't think Bo Outlaw's 0.5 ppg would help our offense much. Here's what Diop and Wagner come down to for me. First Diop. Diop is rawer than raw. His QO is 3.6 mill- that's how much we have to be willing to pay to keep him as a restricted free agent. That's a disgusting amount for a guy who has never averaged 3 points or 4 rebounds in the NBA. Diop is agile for his size, but not agile enough to play minutes next to Yao. Let's take a look at best case for Diop: Yao gets injured, Diop gets lots of minutes, and dominates (in the relative sense). This would be similar to Marc Jackson at Golden State a few years back. This would probably put him good for the full MLE in the market (what it got MJ). If you're the Rockets, do you match that for your backup center? Uh, no. Or you could, and like Golden State, history says we'd get a future 2nd round pick for our troubles. Which is what you gave up in the first place. Again, Diop wouldn't get minutes on this team as long as Mutombo/Yao is healthy/on this team. Under a scenario in which Mutombo is moved, then maybe Diop would make sense as a guy to eat the backup minutes behind Yao. But there are probably other options I'd see before that. As far as Wagner...he's never shot 37% in the NBA. For a team with woeful shooting, that's a huge concern. He's a career 32% 3P shooter. Considering he shot 41% in college, it shouldn't be a surprise. He's an indebted man's Iverson without the heart. Again, I don't think he's worth his QO. I guess for a 2nd rounder, the price would be alright. Nothing more.
Wagner was supposed to be an AI clone. And Diop was going to be the second coming of Mount... Oh well...I love hypes.
It makes no sense from the standpoint that the guy I quoted before said "Cleveland gets the expiring contract they want". If that was their reasoning,...they're dealing an expiring for an expiring..so the reasoning is flawed. And thanks to Nike for writing out longhand what I thought people might understand implied.
Can we trade Yao for Z? Z is a more consistent player and a better rebounder. We can get Diop, Wagner in the same trade, giving up Boki, Spoon or whoever. (OK, I admit, I just want to see Yao and Lebron play together.)
Wagner thus far in his career is injured about as much as Bill Walton used to be thanks but no thanks.
So basically combine all the trade rumors together and you get a trade of Mo Taylor Juwan Howard Jim Jackson Boki Nachbar Deke Mutombo Tyronne Lue our 1st pick and 2 future 2nd picks and TE for Nene Hilario Rodney White Tyson Chandler Othella Harrington Jalen Rose Diop and Wagner Ming 32 Chandler 10 Diop 6 Hilario 30 Chandler 15 Padget 3 Rose 30 White 10 Harrington 8 Tmac 35 Wagner 13 Sura 30 Barret 10 Ward 8 ppg rpg apg bpg Yao Ming 19 9 1.5 1.5 Tmac 23 5 5 1 Hilario 13 8 2 1 Chandler 6 10 1 2 Rose 15 3 4 .5 Sura 10 6 4.5 .5 Now this is the change up we need!
ummm....So knowing what you know now about Walton back then, you would not have signed him even with all his injuries? Did not Bill Walton win a championship?
