God, God, God... God, God, God... Okay. Hello? Some of us are atheists out here! I'm trying to follow you, but you keep throwing out these fairy tales! The New Politician: Well, I really believe in this prescription drug plan because the little elf on my shoulder convinced me that it's a swell idea. Will you quit with this religious crap? There are some of us that actually agree with you on some issues but have to keep reinterpreting your statements into normal-speak. Okay, great, great, I realize that you've pledged to not squash the constitution. Okay, great, the government owns the rights to the network's airwave frequencies or whatever... yeah, yeah, it all makes sense. You're still scaring me. Just back away for a second okay? Can we make a thoughtful discussion about free trade and human liberties without appealing to a higher level being every three seconds? I like my neighbor and haven't even killed anyone today... and guess what: I'm an atheist. Can you believe that? Let's start with this one: I love my grandma. I worship my grandma. I don't want my grandma to have to work at McDonald's just because grandpa's cancer, his diabetes, his PhD in some silly humanities field (theology ) at a late age of 50 and his $1100.00/mo. health insurance bill stressed their savings. Guess what: grandma had a stroke dealing with all of it during my grandpa's last few days, and now her health costs are rising. Now what are you going to do for her? Preach to her? ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
I don't think the Jewish religion (or any other) has elves as a part of it's belief system. That's not religion -- that's living La Vida Loca. Maybe he needs some help. Did he really say that? ------------------ Stay Cool... [This message has been edited by dc sports (edited August 30, 2000).]
dc sports: No, he didn't say that. Are you serious? He'd have been massacred in the media. I was just making a harsh point that, IMO, religion has as much place in politics as a fairy tale. Issues, issues, issues. Arguments can be made for or against an issue. If the only one that can be made is a religious one by the arguer... then that issue is being treated unfairly. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Gotta disagree with you on this one, Achebe. Religion is too important to be left to the fundamentalists. God bless Lieberman for showing everyone that you can believe in God, practice your faith, and apply its principles to your work without being a rightwinger or an evangelist.
Will, Just watching Lieberman on CSPAN gives me chills. He appeals to GOD more than fundamentalists do... he's a politician not someone of the cloth. Is it possible for him to be more religious than many of these religious/political pundits such as Pat Robertson? How is that in tune with protecting the constitution? Meaning, if he truly believes these things, then when is the real Lieberman going to stand up and suggest an infraction on civil liberties? I have seen and have to accept his word that his faith is inclusive and that he is not of the path that fundmentalists come from. But he's playing with fire. He's the vice presidential nominee, for cryin' out loud. I saw earlier that he made an analogy of Clinton's "bridge to the 21st century" to that of the biblical parable of the parting of the red sea. I may be alone, but these things are scary to me. You can play with the words "from" or "of" all that you want, I just don't want to hear this sort of rhetoric by someone that would be in line to take the presidency. Don't ask, don't tell, IMO. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Where's the contradiction between practicing (much less proclaiming) your faith and respecting the Constitution? The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That's it. Joe is free to exercise his religion. He's not allowed to establish a particular state religion, but he doesn't propose to do that anyway. He's Jewish. Judaism is not a proselytizing faith. Hell, the other day, Joe tipped his hat to Jesus of Nazareth. I'll bet you next week he's got some nice words for Mohammed. I bet the only religion Joe won't praise during this campaign is Buddhism -- and that's only because he's running with Al Gore. And if Bible stories are taboo, why haven't all the good liberals complained about Bill Clinton's sermons in all those black churches? And Jesse Jackson's Biblical admonition to "stay out of the Bushes"? And Al Gore's joke about the NRA (the last time Moses listened to a Bush, his people wandered in the desert ...), etc. Most liberals are hypocrites about religion. They love it when it's used in the civil rights movement, but they scream bloody murder when it's invoked against adultery or teen pregnancy or abortion. Well, guess what: It's the same thing.
I agree with you Achebe. I like alot of the things about the Dems, but Leiberman scares me. I'm more frightened of both of the VP candidates than I am of the presidential candidates. ( My tangent) I'm also afraid that my (at the moment) Libertarian vote will take away from the Dems (who are at the moment my second choice) and then elect the GOP. Our whole political system is f*cked up. ------------------ I need a new signature. 302
When did Clinton force his faith down other people's throats on the campaign trail? Hell, everyone makes a side comment every now and then, but Lieberman is a walking epiphany. Jesse Jackson isn't even a valid example because he's also known as the Reverend Jesse Jackson. He's a friggin' ordained minister. I don't find Al Gore as a positive example either, because I find his flaunting of religion nearly as obscene as Lieberman's. However, at least when Al Gore celebrates his views or the accomplishments of the outgoing administration he doesn't look for a divine pat on the back. As an atheist... sure I like when other people cover my bases for me (i.e. civil rights), because churches can be appealed to to invoke social change. I have no qualms against religion arguing its case (outside of the notion that a particular party has a batphone to GOD) on certain issues. By all means, it should do so. I merely disagree with some certain beliefs, but not that people of faith should have those beliefs. Obviously, your point is that these issues are to be hit on a case by case basis. Oh, well he derives his belief from GOD, great. How does this issue relate to the constitution, and how does this one? I understand that. However, Gore and Lieberman and Bush and Cheney are all citing an inside track to GOD. Talk about the damn issues. I don't want to know who is more biblically informed. God is irrelevant. S/he has nothing to do with health care, education, the debt, tax cuts or my grandma's social security check. These people are all freakin' lawyers! In a court of law you'd probably get a contempt of court citation for all of these excessive appeals. Your honor, my client is as innocent as the Mother Mary. Give me a break. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
I figured Lieberman's wide use of religion in his speeches, etc. was to blunt criticism from the Religious Right about the Dems being less than moral and to make voters more confortable with the moral direction of this ticket vs. the moral direction of Bill Clinton. That's not to say that Lieberman is not a deeply religious man anyway. It's just with all the handlers and consultants and polling data and speechwriters and the like involved in the Presidential campaign, I figure there must be a reason (related to getting people to vote for Gore/Lieberman) for his bringing up those things on the campaign trail. But I'm cynical that way. ------------------ HoustonSportsBoard.com
Lynus, Thanks. I guess this is somewhat off topic, but did you read that Newsweek article on Cheney... spookey. Talk about a return to the old guard. Chief of Staff for Ford, Sec. of State for daddy Bush. Votes against a ban on cop-killing bullets? What a weirdo. He even got his co. a $900 Million dollar contract in Iraq immediately after planning Desert Storm. His wife is even scarier. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
You may have a point there mrpaige. If that's the case, perhaps Lieberman can just hang out in the South and in the Northeast. Flaunt god there, rally the ticket and let me know when to change the channel. Perhaps closed captioning for the "believing in invisible things" impaired can appear at the bottom of the screen w/o so many shout outs to God. Maybe it could even be dubbed over so that Lieberman would look like he was in an americanized kung-fu movie. I'm sorry if I come across in an offensive manner... but I live in Salt Lake City. There's nothing more insulting than watching a mormon candidate appeal to 'his base' to get him elected. Pathetic. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Unlike Achebe, I'm a believer. But I also think he's right about keeping religion out of the political process. The national media (bless their biased butts) are spouting the same kinds of stuff that Will posted. But - and I'll bet the ranch on this - had it been Bush or Cheney, the media would have been all over them like white on rice. Mrpaige nailed it - the whole Lieberman thing was to blunt criticism of Gore and his ties to Clinton. Lieberman's positions on many of the issues are contrary to Gore's, but, like most politician, Lieberman is so enamoured by the thought of being VP that he's prostituted his own principles. ------------------ "Who Wants To Be A Rocket?" - and probably a millionaire as well. The off-season will be interesting!
