1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Our record up till now

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jogo, Dec 9, 2004.

  1. jogo

    jogo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    People are way too quick to judge our team. As I've seen people post before, we've lost 3 starters and now need to let our players gel and adopt VG's system.

    Looking at our record until now I expected the ROX to be 10-9. Two really bad losses this year (ATL and NY) but these were only by 4 and 1 point. Yeah we screwed up but we also won games I figured we'd lose (on the road at Portl, Clips, Mem etc). SO, looking at our 1st 19 games, what record would you expect us to have?!!

    VG is a great coach. How do I know? Look at what he did for NY. He took them from an 8 seed to the Finals! They played well against SA then. When he left NY they started to suck and have sucked ever since then. He got a ROX team with Francis to the playoffs. His offensive system is boring and dry, but the players are largely responsible for our poor play. Poor FG%, poor 3pt%, McGrady is struggling and Yao too. If Yao didn't get in foul trouble EVERY GAME then we'd be much better off.

    Will we get beat by SA tonight? Probably. Will they kill us? Maybe. Does this mean that our season is over and we should fire VG. NOPE.
     
  2. bigben69

    bigben69 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    126
    Yes it does
     
  3. shawn786

    shawn786 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,015
    Likes Received:
    6
    He is a good coach no doubt, BUT 4 this team he is not. He needs a scrappy non-athletic team like the old Knicks team to be effective. He isnt used to having a super start like T-Mac around so T-Mac struggles. Just like Steve did last year. Im sorry its not the players falt becuase this IS JVG's team. He hand picked all of them ex-knicks ect. Theres no excuses 4 his crappness. Im sorry, im on the bandwaggon now & it'll b damn hard to take me off!
     
  4. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,227
    Likes Received:
    6,573
    VG is a great coach. How do I know? Look at what he did for NY. He took them from an 8 seed to the Finals! They played well against SA then. When he left NY they started to suck and have sucked ever since then

    So he took an Eastern Conference team to the finals ONCE, and that makes everything great and okay.

    JVG QUIT his team because they sucked, they sucked even more after him (mainly because of Cheney), but they had a bad start to a season and he was gone.

    No one is saying JVG is a bad coach, he just isn't the right coach for this team. This isn't the mid-90's in the eastern coference, he doesn't have scrappy old players that rely soley on defense. This is a team that is capable of putting up big numbers, and in style.

    The fact is that we're not playing the right style. Look at Denver and Memphis, they were so good last year because they played a style that fit their team, they have gotten out of that style and they are struggling now.
     
    #4 gucci888, Dec 9, 2004
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2004
  5. shawn786

    shawn786 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,015
    Likes Received:
    6
    Same points as me, good job! :)
     
  6. tim562

    tim562 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,499
    Likes Received:
    199

    E X A C T L Y ! ! !

    He needs to build his system around Yao and Mcgrady and the supporting cast. Not Yao and Mcgrady into the system he already though of. Look at Rudy, he doesn't have a dominant center like he used to have, now he has a dominant guard. He adjusted his system around Kobe. Key point here...He adjusted. Van Grumpy...hmmmmm take a hint.
     
  7. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    8,026
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    i think most people aren't so negative becauseof the record, but more because of how we got this record, we haven't played any good games
     
  8. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    ok this is a rant...

    Im disppointed in quite a few things.

    Like some people mentioned earlier im tired of this ugly style of low possesion basketball. Maybe if we were winning I could swallow it better but losing and losing ugly just sucks. We have two tremendous offensive talents in Yao and TMac both unstoppable in their own right but both not being utilized to the fullest of the potential. Could you imagine Don Nelson forcing Dirk into the low post to only bang and rebound? Or Flip making KG only a center?

    Our players have an array of skills that could make them the most fearsome two some in the league. However, we are not utilizing them and showcasing what they can do.. I constantly hear coaches talking running some plays to get their stars some easy shots and get them going. You run plays to put your best players in successful situations where they can score or create for someone else. This is not being done in Houston..

    Another rant I have is this team is supposed to be built around Yao. I hear that all the time! Well I dont see it. It looks like its built around JVG and what he thinks a team should look like.

    If you have a 7'6 low post player dont you want to surround him with shooters? where are they? hmmmm.. we have one on the IL (Boki) not proven but shooting pretty well this season. JJ our most consistent but having a poor year so far. Our PG cant shoot three's, our backup PG (CWard) cant shoot three's anymore.

    We dont have any 3pt specialists off the bench?

    Everyone knows Yao needs some help on the boards.. so who do we have in PF rotation? MoT/Jhoward who seem to average 4 rpg between them and they dont help out with defense.

    The offense looks crummy... The defense looks old/slow
    The personnel decisions leave alot (ALOT) to be desired. The players dont look happy, dont seem to give an honest effort. The coach seems to have lost this team and I dont know what our direction is.

    there are a couple things that need to happen.

    1. Either Yao or Tmac needs to emerge as the leader of this team and give everyone some direction.
    2. We need to find a new coach that get these guys to play the right way and utilize them better on O and D.
    3. We need to bring a better mix of players, vet leadership, rebounding PF, 3pt specialist. Not the best but someone capable.

    J
     
  9. gunn

    gunn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    13-17 by the end of December.
     
  10. edc

    edc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    3,129
    Likes Received:
    42
    Agreed. JVG isn't a bad head coach, just a mediocre one :)
     
  11. yangstax

    yangstax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    have you been reading any threads in this forum since the season started?
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    What in blazes are you talking about???

    This team has been in every game up until the fourth quarter and has lost only one blowout game (Detroit). All of the games have been tight up until the end, which makes them good games to me at least.

    After these guys get used to each other, they will be able to pull out more of those close gamesand, IMO, this team (specifically JVGs system) is not being built for the regular season, it is being built for the playoffs. In the playoffs, our inside-out half court game will have a leg up on teams that rely on lots of fast breaking and transition offense (Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, etc). In addition, in the playoffs, our defense will keep us right in there with anyone.

    This team will be very good this year, just wait and see.
     
  13. emjohn

    emjohn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    567
    As a reality check, the team has to go 42-21 the rest of the way (0.667 ball versus the 0.421 ball we're at) to have a 50 win season and guarantee the playoffs. Short of that, we're going to be in a dogfight for the bottom two seeds.

    JVG is an above average coach, but is well below average as far as his subborn holds to what he believes are correct ways to play. He has shown minimal ability to adapt to his players and minimal ability to develop younger ones.

    As long as he insists that Yao be the primary option on offense when he is the second-most efficient player on the team, we're going to be handicapping ourselves greatly. His intention seems to be that Yao will grow into the role and become the most potent weapon, but it's tough to say when (or if) that will come to be.

    Evan
     
  14. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,086
    Likes Received:
    1,352
    Tight games aren't always good games. The Rockest have been lucky to be tight in a lot of games, plain and simple. It's been poor execution, poor fundamentals, poor basketball, and not fun to watch.

    That being said, I still agree that the team will be good this year, and I am also willing to wait and see. I think it'll happen.
     
  15. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    Andy what in blazes are you talking about?!?

    This team has trailed in pretty much every game we've played and when we win we win ugly.

    Games are close up until the fourth quarter not because we played well but because our style of basketball dictates that. This same style allows weaker teams (less talented) to stay close with us and eeking out wins against us too. (example NYK, Atlanta)

    With our talent we should be blowing crappy teams out of the water. Instead we allow them to stay close and then its a coin toss on who wins the game.

    JVG's system might not be built for the regular season but were playing in the regular season right now and if we dont make some changes we might not get into the playoffs to showcase JVG's "Playoff" basketball.

    I think people make too much of the fact that half court teams dominate the playoffs.. because teams like Minnesota /Kings /Dallas/ Nets have done quite well in the playoffs from what I can remember.

    J
     
  16. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    *side note

    JVG in an excellent defensive coach and would make a great assistant somewhere but his stubborness or lack of creativity is strangling the offensive abilities of our star players.

    Yao has not been playing to the fullest of his ability but I dont see TMac really hoisting this team on his shoulder's and playing great ball either.

    Someone needs to step up on this team as the leader Yao or Tmac I could care less who..

    J
     
  17. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,227
    Likes Received:
    6,573
    The only reason we've been in every game up til the 4th quarter is because we play so bad against bad teams and gave up 2 double-digit leads to the Knicks/Hawks.

    Why would you want a system that is only built for the playoffs? You first have to make the playoffs (which we aren't a lock), and there are systems that do well both in the regular season and playoffs.

    I just don't want the Rockets to act like we don't have any choices. We don't have to win ugly/lose ugly, we don't have to have 78-76 wins over the Sixers, we should blow out the bad teams and let Yao/TMac rest, a JVG system doesn't allow blowouts.
     
  18. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    oh yeah.. be thankful were not Warriors fans. man its quite depressing over there with posters arguing if they are the worst team in the league or second worst. hahaha

    J
     
  19. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    4
    1st post ever? :) Nice start.

    Post more. We need more level headed and prudent minds like you around here.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,505
    Likes Received:
    40,069
    JVG is the most overated sack of crap coach in the entire league.

    The guy has not adapted ONCE to any player he has coached.

    He inhreited a good team in NY and kept the same ole same ole, then when the first sign of leakage started on the Knicks he bailed out and quit.

    He then comes to the Rockets and turns a high scoring high turnover point guard into a lower scoring HIGHER turnover one.

    He then drops EG on his butt when we had to pay him anyway, trades for a 32 ppg scorer and promptly gets him to score 10 pts less a game and shoot at a career worst percentage.

    He takes a 3rd year SF who all of the sudden is finding his niche and 3pt shot and puts him on IR so he can play a WELL below average Ryan Bowen because he hustles.

    And to top it off he takes a career 17-7 PF and ruins his him as well.

    Who exactly has JVG developed, or managed to make better?

    The man is lower than spat on the belly of a centipede, and the sooner his tiny maniacle Napolean complex ARSE leaves the better we will be.

    DD
     

Share This Page