The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

Cade is a little overrated IMO. I didn't say he wasn't good - I just don't think he's an "MVP Caliber" player. Last season, his line was 24/5/10 on a .56 TS%. Compare that to a true borderline MVP guy like Ant: 29/5/4 on .617 TS%. Solid but not amazing stats with meh efficiency place him firmly outside of the "MVP Caliber" conversation.

I've said it before: Amen's line was 20/8/5 post All Star break last season on a .64 TS%, taking less than 13 shots a game. Let him take Cade's 18 - 20 shots per game and then we can talk.

 

Is Cade the guy though? His performance in this year’s playoffs was up and down and he was the turnover king. I’m not impressed with him at all. Never been

 

i wished we had bane somehow. I think he’s a championship caliber guy. Big contract though

 

The funniest part about this response is that, if any other fanbase had a guy who jumped from a line of 14/8/4 in 2024 - 2025 to 20/8/5 post all star break last season on incredible efficiency while playing amazing defense, they'd be all "we need to build around that guy!" This forum? "He's overrated!"

 

Why. They’re two different type of players in the roles they provide for their team.

Amen has been perceived as untouchable. That’s not the case for Ausar.

 

I have expressed that in the past and said Amen will have the better career. Cade did give me pause this past year with his performance in the regular season though. He still seems to be a step slow to me to be mentioned in the tier with Wemby and Flagg. Amen has to get a good shot, not just an ok one to surpass him I think.

 

Jabari and thats probably it. If I had my pick for 3 players to complement those two specifically (cant pick superstars, role players only) itd be: Mikal Bridges, Naz Reid and Alex Caruso. I still have higher hopes for Jabari than most. But I think Reed and Sengun sorta do the same thing and have similar albeit slightly different issues (they share the negative defense at their position).

Someone like Risacher would fit well on this team. I think as far as coaching is concerned we all know that Ime isnt the guy for the job. He is to getting you to the playoffs what Silas was getting you to the lottery. He has *a lot* of growing up to do if he ever wants to be a great and not good coach.

 

You don’t think Sheppard and Eason fit well next to them? I sort of think they do, especially if Eason’s 3 point shot is real. Two solid POA defenders in Amen and Eason, good help defender in Bari, good 3 point shooting with between Bari, Sheppard, and Eason. The larger issue is whether or not Sengun and Amen can develop a halfway respectable shot - I think it’s possible because Sengun’s form already looks good and Amen has made major strides with his FT%.

 

I just think the Reed/Sengun have issues as a pairing. They are both undersized for their position and for the sake of the exercise, if we kept only Sengun/Amen and decided to build around them, I don't think Reed ultimately fits as good as someone like a prime Jrue Holiday, Alex Caruso or Derrick White. Reed is his own talent in his own right and I don't really see a scenario where him and Sengun are starting together with their shortcomings. It's one or the other to me. Tari in theory works fine but he's a bit of a basketcase and has a myriad of issues. I genuinely think that bro isn't right in the head. I'd be willing to bet that there have been situations with him that have been swept under the rug that we don't know about. Seems like the type of guy that would just not answer his phone for a few days and they'd have to do a wellness check on him.

I think if the top 4 teams in the 24 draft could freely trade amongs each other, none would have the players they picked (the Rockets would have Risacher, Spurs Reed, Wizards Castle, Hawks Sarr). I love Reed Sheppard and prefer him over Sengun if I'm being honest. He's just a more relevant archetype to the modern NBA game where a title was just won by point guard of his stature. I just don't see a scenario where he blossoms with some of the players (and coaches) currently here (FVV, Durant and Sengun are all in his way).

 

CF is always interesting to me. I can like a player a lot, but be so far under the xOFs. I can think a player is okay (or even maybe good) and not great, but just be so far over the vocal part of CFs that thinks a player sucks.

I really hope Amen will be as good as some expect.

 

leads the team in minutes, BPM, Net Rating, Win Shares

guys is not only a fierce competitor but a winner

Rockets Org, Stone, Ime, majority of CF believe in him. Heck even KD

 

BPM and winshares are outdated stats in my opinion. The stats I like, like Amen a lot, just not as much as the AOFs. When I watch a game though, I see centers guard him. I see Kennard guard him. I see Amen score efficiently and a good amount, but I take that into the context on who is guarding him and how that affects the team.

On being a winner, he's not been that yet other than in the regular season.

On majority of CFs, Amen is a weird conundrum. I like Amen. I am willing to see if he makes a step forward, and don't want to break up the team in case he or someone else makes another leap or other really good thing goes in Rockets favor. That said, the majority of CF seems to be that the Rockets are "cooked" and should start over as if they have no faith in Amen. And yet, there seems to be this belief that if the Rockets get rid of all their vets as 30 year olds can't be trusted, Amen at some point 3 years and beyond will be good enough to carry the team when the Rockets don't have financial flexibility to put as good of players as there are around him. I would not bet on him being good enough to be the man that can carry JSJ, Tari, and Reed while not having flexibility to add much else besides whoever fits Sengun's slot (could be Sengun, but I'm guessing at some point those 2 are separated).

 

We don't have a franchise player on this team, not a single one.

DD

 

Yeah, but I betcha our Sengun and Amen Franchise threads are more posts combined than any Franchise Thread out there on Wemby, Shai, and Cade. Even after losing @AroundTheWorld

 

The franchise player debate is worthless. You can scour the entire league and come up with a few players.

Jokic is clearly a franchise player, surrounded by quite a bit of talent. How did that go?

Ant, great player, and you can definitely build a franchise around him. They still seem to be stacking talent. They brought in former franchise player Ball, who now seems to have fallen a couple tiers below.

Wemby- Clearly.

Tatum- There is a player that won a title. his team didn’t seem to miss him a ton during the regular season and we will see how he does without a proper sidekick now.

Flagg- Probably would put him in the category with with Wemby, but it still has to be proven out.

the argument gets framed up wrong. Every single team in the league should have a franchise player. As crappy as an option, it might be they should have somebody to which they are building some sort of vision around.

retrospectively, maybe this is the singular worst thing about acquiring Durant. is that we could’ve spent last year building out around Thompson or Sengun if that is your preference.

my personal thought is that we are going to look back at the tanking era and the players are going to stack like this

Wemby if he stays healthy
Amen
Cade
Sengun
Wagner
Banchero

I saw somebody yesterday. Leave a comment that said Thompson didn’t improve his shot at all. That is false and it just shows that a lot of people are not watching the games.

I will give you a little news flash, our Caucasian sniper will probably start the year off, struggling from three-point land. Most of the time when players add muscle like that it takes them a bit to recalibrate.

I would think there are only 4 to 16 teams in the NBA that have better franchise players than we do as far as options to build around. Giannis, sure count him. But we would’ve been b****ing and moaning if you were playing for us and getting the results in Milwaukee that he got the last couple years.

Amen Sure as hell looked like a franchise player when we needed it at the end last year.

 

Knicks - Brunson
Spurs- Wemby
Pacers - Hali
OKC- SGA
Boston - Tatum/Brown
Dallas- Luka
Denver - Joker
Miami - Butler
GSW- Curry
Milwaukee - GA
Raptors- Leonard
Cavs - LBJ
Dallas - Dirk
Miami - Wade/LBJ
Spurs- Duncan
OKC- KD/Russ/Harden

Every one of those teams had a legitimate MVP level player. Other than PHX in 2021 every team that has made the finals in the last 20 years has had a legitimate guy. It isn't worthless when the proof is literally written in history.

Also Amen over Cade is comical and only an irrational Rockets fan would say that.

 

who among those were clear franchise players by the end of their 3rd year in the league?

 

This. A chunk of those players took several year and some a new team to get close to their “superstar level”.

 

Makes sense, but Okur went on to be an all star in Utah and Rasheed was one of the best players on the floor when wanted to be regardless of who else was there. I agree somewhat of what you're saying about Thompson, but the problem is we've seen and said the same about Ben Simmons. Amen can't get to spots to get a reliable shot up. Thats what Wade did and Derozan continues to do. You cant be a guard type of wing and nobody guards you past 10 feet. I

 

Thats really for the player to figure out, see Derozan