What does that have to do with anything? ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
Absolutely nothing. Just like Larry Brown's losing having nothing to do with his opinion of Shaq. ------------------
If Dream would have played his entire career in Boston, New York or L.A., he would probably be known as "the best center to ever play" Just look how much acclaim Moses got after he went to Philly. Houston is just not known as a "Media Machine" in the sports world. ------------------ When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.- Albert Einstein
Mojo, forget the Shaq argument for a second and try and convince me that Kobe Bryant is the second best guard ever. Considering it's debateable whether or not he's even the best shooting guard in the league, I don't see how in the hell he can be considered the second best guard ever. Larry Brown does have reason to compliment Shaq. Shaq's Lakers just kicked his team's collective a**, so it's no surprise that Brown would be praising him. I really have no problem with Shaq being considered the most physically dominating center of all time, but I don't consider a player with his limitations the best ever. He doesn't have anything close to a face up game, and as much as he wants to deny that and just say he doesn't need one, the reality is he couldn't have a face up to the basket game even if he wanted to. His free throw shooting has improved, but that doesn't change the fact that he shotputs the ball. ------------------
Bwahahahhah.....I hope your not serious, dude. Did you expect him to say something like..."Shaq's not really that good...mediocre at best". That would imply that philly...in getting a collective laker butt kickin' wasn't really that good to begin with.(which is probably closer to the truth than you would like to admit). It's human nature to ascribe superhuman powers to someone that knocks your penis in the powder...especially when that someone is a fat hunk of lard that makes bad movies and has an IQ comparable to a woodchuck. Oh...and your comment along the lines of "And where exactly were your Rockets?". Ummm....I couldn't tell ya that. Cancun maybe? Or watching one of the lamest finals on record....who knows. ------------------
"Considering it's debateable whether or not he's even the best shooting guard in the league, I don't see how in the hell he can be considered the second best guard ever. " -Exactly. Kobe is a better guard right now than Magic, the Big O, or Dr. J EVER were?...That's a load of crap!...Is Kobe even that much better than Iverson or Tracy McGrady? Not in my opinion. Horry is nuts. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Kobe is the best guard in the game today. Will he eventually be the 2nd best guard ever? I dont know. I'll reserve judgement until the end of his career. Who knows, he might end up being the BEST guard ever *ducks*. My original beef with you guys was due to the fact that you were blasting Robert Horry for having an opinion. If you disagree with him, fine, but the guy doesnt deserve to be lynched by his former fans for having one. ------------------
He could've just stated that Shaq was the most dominant player in the game today. For your reference, that's just a teeny bit better than "mediocre". Did not know that. I guess I learned something new today. I'll make sure I go out of my way to compliment the next dude who kicks my ass. Thanks for the tip. ------------------ [This message has been edited by M0J0 (edited June 17, 2001).]
How many times must I tell you guys that you dont need a face up game to be a center. Wilt didnt have one, Kareem didnt have one, and Russell didnt hav one. Get over this if you are a center and you dont have the skills of a guard you are skilless, it is really not making any sense. ------------------
I think Horry's statement about kobe are obviously wrong. Kobe has a ton of potential (he's only 22) but to say the 2nd best now is kind of silly. But again you have to stick with your teammates. Kobe has the skills to be a great one, but he's not there yet by any means.
As well you should....obviously that dude would be the better man at that point. But the question is...do you say he is the best there ever was or just the best at that time? ------------------
Wilt is way overated!He was a great player and way ahead of his time but didnt have too much competition,I would have loved to see him todays game. Shaq could be the most dominate big man but the most talented is Dream and the only other center that I would even consider arguing my case to would be Kareem!As said before Dream went through a number of the 50 greatest players of all time and basiclly carried the Rockets on his back for the most part! He beat down every center he faced in both years and if you dont remember kicked Shaqs @ss in a sweep.Dont you think its funny Shaq disrespects all centers hes faced but Dream and never has anything but good things to say about Dream. I would like to hear what Shaq thinks! Oh,and also there hasent ever been anyone like Dream either and probably never will be.How many people do that little shake and then a fadeaway now and who else can hit that turn around baseline shot?No one!If someone does its surely to be on the highlights and Dream did it almost everytime down the court!Just listen to some of the announcers voices when they hit those shots,and I remember those shots were normal for Dream! ------------------ AKA Rendiggler
If you call Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dave Cowens, Bob Lanier no competition... Wilt in today's game would eat these weak no-talent scrubs alive. Shawn Bradley? Greg Ostertag? Bryant Reeves? You think Wilt couldn't get off for 50 on these guys? LOL. The talent at the center position is the weakest it's ever been. Who is there is today's game other than Shaq and Dikembe Mutombo? Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson are past their prime, and Alonzo Mourning has the kidney problem. Wilt would have a field day... ------------------ THE REGULATOR "I'm not the showstopper, I'm _RUNNING_ the show!"
C'mon people. It doesn't make any of your less of a Rockets fan to admit that Shaq will be considered one of (if not the) best center of all time. First of all, Shaq is not an idiot, he just plays one on TV. He's made some pretty smart decisions throughout his career. He was/is smart enough to know what it takes to appeal to everyone. You say his movies are stupid, and that is true. But did he make movies to appeal to young adults? No. He made movies for kids. Like Mike, he made sure that he didn't alienate any fans. He made movies for kids and those kids will most likely be Shaq fans for life. Does that sound like the work of an idiot? The guy established a fan base for life. When NBC saw how marketable he was in Orlando, they jumped right on his bandwagon. Hakeem could never appeal to everyone. Only houstonians can understand what he says most of the time. Only Houstonians and true basketball fans can appreaciate what he was able to do. He changed the game for the big man. The 94 Rockets were the last team to win it all with just one superstar. He was that good. I get tired of reading people saying that Hakeem dominated Shaq or whatever. In 95, it was Hakeem's experience that won the battle between he and Shaq. The numbers were a wash. They basically cancelled each other out. We won because our supporting cast came through more than Orlando's. There is no shame in saying that. I'm not a big Shaq backer. I like him. He's good for basketball. He makes me laugh. He's just a cool guy. There is no one here that wouldn't trade places with him right now. If he were a Rocket, you all would quick to say that he is the greates player in the history of basketball. Did he deserve to be a top 50 players a few years ago? No, he didn't earn it yet. Does he deserve it now? Yes he does. He's more than earned it now. More than Scottie Pippen, that's for sure. No one ever rode Scotties coattails, that's for sure. Shaq's been in the league long enough now. He actually deserves the credit that NBC and everyone else has been giving him since he was a rookie. He's a positive role model. He doesn't break the law. He doesn't beat or rape women. He doesn't make kids in every town he visits. He plays fair and doesn't try to hurt people like Karl Malone does. Give the man a break, I say. Time will tell how his career will be looked back on. Part of the fun in basketball is arguing things like this. Just like we can never prove that we would have dusted MJs ass had he been around to meet us in the Finals. Speaking of MJ and his fans. Imagine how they feel about Kobe already being labled better than MJ? Even Jackson said so. Why do you think MJs coming back? The man thrives on challenges and competition. Too bad Kobe isn't about 5 or 6 years older. That would have been some classic battles between him and MJ. Anyway, that's my cents on this subject. Flame away...... ------------------
And where were YOU and the rest of the Lakers fans 2 years ago? It's easy to come to our board and ask "where were your Rockets", when you wait until your team has some success. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley
Me first. If I'm not mistaken, Dream averaged something like 31 points a game that series. I believe it was one of the only times (maybe the only time?) a player has ever averaged over 30 points a game in a 4 game series. I think he dominated. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club [This message has been edited by Toast (edited June 19, 2001).]
"If I'm not mistaken, Dream averaged something like 31 points a game that series. I believe it was one of the only times (maybe the only time?) a player has ever averaged over 30 points a game in a 4 game series. I think he dominated" -33 ppg in that series and yes it was a record for a 4 game series. "First of all, Shaq is not an idiot, he just plays one on TV" -He got a 680 on his SAT. He's dumb as dirt. Period. "Like Mike, he made sure that he didn't alienate any fans. He made movies for kids and those kids will most likely be Shaq fans for life. " -Wow, what a sweetheart!...Forget learning how to do a basic fundamental thing like shooting a FT when I can go make movies to market myself more. "Hakeem could never appeal to everyone. Only houstonians can understand what he says most of the time" -That's not his job. Hakeem was not arrogant or childish enough to think that the NBA is all about promoting yourself as much as you can. He just went out, busted his butt in the gym in the offseasons to get better, and played ball. Just what PROFESSIONALS are supposed to do. "I get tired of reading people saying that Hakeem dominated Shaq or whatever. " -Shaq admitted he was dominated. He did put up decent #'s but the stats don't tell the story. Hakeem was the man and Shaq was the student that series. Late in the games, Hakeem was hitting clutch buckets and Shaq was throwing up bricks at the FT line or committing huge turnovers "If he were a Rocket, you all would quick to say that he is the greates player in the history of basketball" -I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to make a ridiculous claim like that if Shaq were a Rocket. "He's a positive role model. He doesn't break the law. He doesn't beat or rape women. He doesn't make kids in every town he visits. " -He does not break the law or beat women. In general, I think he's a pretty good guy. However, lying about what women you slept with (he did this last month), calling NBA players who are older and classier than you "punkasses" in books, etc doesn't exactly make you the ideal role model. I also found his remarks about Dikembe Mutombo "flopping" after delivering about 5-6 dirty elbows to Mutombo's face as pathetic whining on Shaq's part. "He plays fair " -LOL! His trademark offensive move is the elbow to the opposing center's face. He plays more of a WWF game than a true NBA game. It's not a clean game by any stretch. If the refs called the game by the book, he'd foul out in the first quarter "Speaking of MJ and his fans. Imagine how they feel about Kobe already being labled better than MJ? " -I'm sure the MJ fans are insulted and they should be. People just get caught up in the moment. Kobe is not even close to MJ and Shaq is not the Best Center ever, though they are both shooting up the lists if they keep winning titles. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
I don't think Dream dominated Shaq. He outplayed Shaq, but physically and mentally, but he didn't dominate. To me, dominating would be scoring 30 points a game and grabbing 15 boards, while the other guy score 18 and grabbed 8 boards, and couldn't hit a big shot. Dream dominated David Robinson and made him look like a fool, but he just outplayed Shaq. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley
That's not his job. Hakeem was not arrogant or childish enough to think that the NBA is all about promoting yourself as much as you can. He just went out, busted his butt in the gym in the offseasons to get better, and played ball. Just what PROFESSIONALS are supposed to do. Marketing is a huge part of being a superstar these days. You don't have to like it, but's fact. The purists of the world are not pumping billions of dollars into the NBA. Imagine the Rockets being on the same level as the Aeros. You'd only have a couple thousand people watching on a nightly basis. Players would barely make a living in their sport. You wouldn't be able to see all the games on TV. You'd be lucky to even see the Playoffs live on TV. Besides Shaq never had to promote himself. People were lining up to do it for him. That's one of the things that agents are for. He does not break the law or beat women. In general, I think he's a pretty good guy. However, lying about what women you slept with (he did this last month), calling NBA players who are older and classier than you "punkasses" in books, etc doesn't exactly make you the ideal role model. I also found his remarks about Dikembe Mutombo "flopping" after delivering about 5-6 dirty elbows to Mutombo's face as pathetic whining on Shaq's part. All you could come up with is that he called older players "punkasses"?! That's hilarious. Also,everybody whines. I don't see Shaq jawing at the refs while the opponents go on a fast break, like some of our players have been known to do. As for calling Mutombo a flopper, who cares?! Who cares what he says to the media?! He plays the media, as do most good players. Him lying about who he slept with was a joke. He wasn't trying to convince anyone it was true. Most team owners would be ecstatic if this is all the dirt people could find on their stars. Besides, he apologised whenever the it got blown out of proportion. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to make a ridiculous claim like that if Shaq were a Rocket. I'm sure you're right, but you get my point. There definetly would not be any of this animosity if he were on our team. It's not like he's Karl Malone. LOL! His trademark offensive move is the elbow to the opposing center's face. He plays more of a WWF game than a true NBA game. It's not a clean game by any stretch. If the refs called the game by the book, he'd foul out in the first quarter Maybe the opposing center should keep his face out of the way of those huge elbows! C'mon, Shaq's not pulling a John Stockton here. He's not throwing his elbows around when he rebounds. He powers to the basket because he can. Find someone stronger to stop him and you won't have this problem. There are players that are known for throwing elbows and knees and Shaq is not one of them. Shaq admitted he was dominated. He did put up decent #'s but the stats don't tell the story. Hakeem was the man and Shaq was the student that series. Late in the games, Hakeem was hitting clutch buckets and Shaq was throwing up bricks at the FT line or committing huge turnovers He was being respectful to Hakeem like he always does. You'd think Rocket fans would appreaciate that fact. I tried to find the comparisons, but couldn't. Hakeem dominated in experience, like I said the first time. The numbers were pretty close. I did find this article, which should bring you all back to that year. It's awesome what we accomplished along the way. Most of us will never foget how special that was. Some of the new fans will enjoy reading this: http://global.nba.com/history/fin9495.html He got a 680 on his SAT. He's dumb as dirt. Period. There are many people in this country who have bad test days. I don't the details of him taking his SAT. How many times did he take it? Did he take an ACT? How well did he do? Maybe he's not a scholar, but he's not an idiot. All I'm saying is that a lot of people like to trash Shaq because his is so dominant and well-marketed. It's pretty popular to be against what everyone else is in to. There's nothing wrong with that, just make sure you have an argument you can stand on. ------------------
