I posted the following in a different thread, but it probably got burried. Anyway, here it is: A serious question for Texans: I don't live in Texas, but hear Texan law is pretty hardcore. Is throwing a cup of water at someone considered assault? How about a creme pie to a celebrity's face? Does the body guards of the celebrity have the right to tackle the pie thrower on the ground? These are honest questions, I really don't know the answers to them.
'round these parts , posting in the wrong forum will get you cut with a rusty knife, from throat-um to scrotum... youve been warned..
I doubt either of those are assault, but if someone throws a pie at your face and you go and punch them in the face, you'd be the one in trouble with the law, not the pie thrower.
I agree, but what about if you tackled him so he doesn't throw another one? Not punched, that's probably excessive. Tackled like the way Artest tackled the WRONG fan.
clove: in reference to the other thread, yes, if someone was seriously injured or in threat of being injured by an object being thrown at them, then yes, someone may be able to tackle them if it was with due force and not found excessive. however, in the scenario i was referring to ie "beer being thrown on face" the case is different, and a punch in the face as as a response would be deemed as "unnecessary assault" resulting in likely assault and battary charges. tort law upholds the idea that if one is going to use self defense, it needs to be equivalent and not excessive. now, going to your scenario, you have a different set of facts. first, you have a cup being thrown that capable of cutting. I believe there were only plastic cups in the audience, like most sports arenas have, the likelihood of a plastic hollow projectile cutting someones face would be slim. secondly the thrower would likely only have one drink in hand, so it would be unreasonable for the person getting hit to attack them for fear of them having another "razor plastic cup of doom" being thrown at them. Self-defense implies that you are protecting yourself. if the thrower has nothing else to throw, you can't be in fear of being hit again, thus self defense would not be possible unless you saw the thrower looking for another object. the key here is "reasonable force" if someone was attacking you with a knife, you do all you can to save yourself. If someone unarmed and much smaller than you is attacking you, you have to restrain yourself when practicing self-defense. in the case of beer or a cream pie, as much damage is done ones pride, liquid or cream on the face does not equal the damage a 260 lb athlete could cause by punching a face. a cup of water in the face would be assault, but one wouldn't be able to claim much, it'd be frivolous, and you couldn't do much in self-defense. now as to your question of hardcore texas law, the "justifiable homicide law" has been known to be a little more lenient in texas. if someone is robbing your home you can shoot him on the spot, provided when you shoot him the body stays in the house. other states are less strict on this rule.
Like I said earlier, punch in the face is excessive. Would it be ok to tackle like Artest did? It was a cup. A plastic one. A referee was cut bad by a plastic bottle. I would think a creme pie to the face is even less likely to cut. Is it ok for the body guard to tackle the pie thrower? Again, is it ok to tackle the pie thrower when you can clearly see he doesn't have anymore pies. I agree. But is tackling like Artest did excessive? I get a feeling you think Artest punched the fan in the face. But go see the tape again. He tackled the guy the sameway a bodyguard would tackle you if you throw a paper cup of water at any celebrity. He never made a fist.
I don't think Artest's reaction count as self defence, simply becase he was not in any real dangers at that point. BTW, great sig clove
Like I said earlier, punch in the face is excessive. Would it be ok to tackle like Artest did? considering that Artest is well over 200lbs, yes, btw, he did intend to throw a punch but was held back. the tackle would be assault and battery. The held back punch would be assault but no battery. It was a cup. A plastic one. A referee was cut bad by a plastic bottle. I would think a creme pie to the face is even less likely to cut. Is it ok for the body guard to tackle the pie thrower? ok, didn't know about the cup thing, but the thrower didn't intend to throw it at the ref (i hope) but there would be transferred assault. as for the pie thrower, it depends on the event. but not much damage can be done by a pie, so like the cup thing, it depends if damage is done. Again, is it ok to tackle the pie thrower when you can clearly see he doesn't have anymore pies. no I agree. But is tackling like Artest did excessive? yes, he's a big man and an athlete, his tackle will cause more damage than any cup. I get a feeling you think Artest punched the fan in the face. But go see the tape again. He tackled the guy the sameway a bodyguard would tackle you if you throw a paper cup of water at any celebrity. He never made a fist. you're right, i mixed things up a little, artest didnt punch that guy but did intend to throw a punch, but his fist never landed because other fans got hold of him (his punches against the other fans that hit him would have been self defense), and he might have gotten some more punches in all the chaos, he definetly intended to wail on the guy, so fact or not, there is an assault there. bodyguards covering celebrities and highprofile people are different because those people are actually at risk of being hurt by wacko fans or whoever, so its a different context.
Is the creme covered celebrity in any danger? I know we've all seen political activist/animal right activist/fill_in_the_lank_maniac throw pie/egg at celebrity/politians, and their body guard tackles them down hard on the ground. Should they be charged? I sense many dislikes Ron Artest to begin with, including myself, but we shouldn't judge him through lenses. He deserves to be suspended because as a player, you are expected to behave better than a normal human. He hasn't done anything wrong if he wasn't a player. If someone threw a creme pie at Hakeem's face, and Hakeem's 320lb body guard tackles the pie nut. Even if while tackling, the body guard's weight breaks the guy's leg, I have little doubt 99% of this board would say the guy deserved it. Including people who still believes self defense can't be used by Artest. lol, I came up with the idea all by myself.
nyquil82: I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, but I'm afraid I am. I'm not trying to be a smartass either, but I'm afraid I apear that way. I am pretty sure in most places, you are allowed to tackle him. If you really disagree with this law, I can see your point. But according to law, I think Artest didn't do wrong. Some of the body guards are bigger than Artest. lol. Artest is a celebrity and he is highprofile, he is at risk of being hurt by wacko fans just like them. If Artest really wanted to punch that guy, he would be in the hospital and Artest would be in jail. Since you just found out about the tackle and ref being hurt by the water bottle. I'll assume you were arguing just to argue. I do that a lot myself.
I know. It seems like I am talking to myself. lol I'm just afraid we'll fry the wrong guy. lol Had it been Malone, I would call for his head.
And they are doing the right thing. As a player, you are expected to follow rules at work. No going in stands. He broke the rule. If I'm the Pacer's owner, I'll suspend him for an additional game next season just to make a point.
