Why do people care about anything? It's just basketball. I'm just pointing out that it's silly to say that, given the available information -- which it is, especially in a city like Detroit for reasons that I have already explained. If that makes people feel defensive and lash out, if they subconsciously feel guilty or threatened or whatever, then fine. But it doesn't change the fact that its silly to say that, innocuous or not. ( aside: Innocuous or not, if you wallk into a bodega in the Bronx and start referring to its spanish speaking inhabitants as Mexicans, you'd likely get your ass beat down, so do with that what you will)
Yeah, it is silly, stupid, and completely ridicules. How dare people use the word Mexican without 100% accuracy and proof. Alrite Sam the great one, you have spoken. From here on forth, nobody use the word "Mexican" to describe a person. Until they produce proper ID to prove they are from Mexico, such people shall be termed either "latino", "Hispanic", or maybe just "brown people". Don't know if that last one allowed, must consult Sam the internet vocabulary police. Now, can we continue talking about the topic at hand, please? Can someone post an article or something about Max, what provoked him to charge the stands?
I actually agree with SamFisher on this one. One example, it would be very convinient to label a white guy throwing punchs at people in China as an American, even when he wasn't.
The bottom line Is I have to side with the Players on this one...Fans is what provoked this melee.... Artest clearly is not making any threats at all but lying down on the bench before the Beer free for all starts. Now with players being millionaires and representing a professional sport they should be alittle bit more at ease, BUT when some idiot throws a beer at someone, chances are there will be a fight or a charge in the stands. Now again Fans know this, they provoke these players thinking it's time to get paid....I see alot of lawsuits being filed even the no nonsense ones as well such as Parents probably saying there child has nightmares now blah blah... Goes to show you as well Security is laid back at these games and this even goes for the Toyota center as well, I have seen them search peoples bags and not their persons. BOTTOM LINE IS FANS STARTED THIS AND THE PLAYERS FINISHED IT, WHAT GOES ON DURING GAME PLAY IS NOT A FANS CONCERN ON A PERSONAL LEVEL. They start taking away season tickets or barring these fans from the game they will stop doing this. I see a chain of this happening now, come to think of it two teams today started a brawl on the field...so its happening already.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/11/20/sports1614EST0468.DTL Feb. 6, 1995 -- Vernon Maxwell entered the stands and punched a fan who heckled him during a game at Portland. He was suspended 10 games without pay and fined $20,000. He later settled out of court with the fan.
That melee last night was so disgraceful I almost expected FAT GUY #1 to tear off his shirt revealing a Golden Palace tattoo. I think every player that went up into the stands after fans should be suspended harshly, regardless of if he was provoked or not. I think Artest was doing okay, until he went into the stands. Artest should have stayed on that table, and let security handle it. I have a hard time believing he'll be able to claim self-defense when he put himself in danger (went INTO a hostile crowd) and attacked the wrong guy. He obviously didn't see who threw the water bottle. Players should know that nothing good can happen when they go up into the stands after fans. They risk injuries, suspensions, fines, and lawsuits (and I guess riots too). As for the claim that Detroit's security was lax: they weren't given much of a chance. At least if the players stay on the court, security can try to protect them, and remove the offending fans. Artest and Jackson outran security to the fans they confronted. I saw at least three security guards forced to leave the court and go up into the stands, where they weren't effective. Security is probably organized to defend the court, so the Pacers left any protection they had. Any fans that threw stuff should be charged with misdemeanor assault and face fines and jail time, as well as revocation of season tickets without compensation. FAT GUY #1 and #2 should be charged with trespassing in addition. Once a fan enters the court in an aggressive manner, they should expect to be physically manhandled, whether punched by a player or tackled by a security guard. Players should stay on the court, fans should stay in the stands. Security should be given the best opportunity to keep players and fans separated. There should be automatic 10-game suspensions for going up into the stands after fans, just like there are automatic suspensions for leaving the bench to fight.
I missed what happened...no access to TV the last day... I went through this thread and could only glean one (maybe 2) animated gifs of what transpired. The rest of the links do not work. I have a natural curiosity what all the chaos is about...is there any video out there of the whole event?
Point taken about using extreme point. Like I said in the post, it was just for argument's sake. The gasoline line was just meant to add effect. You can take it out and the idea in that post wouldn't change. Artest doesn't have to seriously believe that at the time. What I was really writing about is I don't think Artest will be charged with any wrong doing in the court. I'm no legal expert though. Is it really that hard to believe some fans verbally threaten player's lives? Maybe not in Houston, but it happens. Especially when you are fighting the favorite player on their team. If he had heard verbal threats, had been attacked with a bottle of beer, doesn't that justify him pinning the attacker on the ground? Maybe a chair is on the way. Here I am talking about justified in the court room, not in the NBA, where he is just a citizen, please don't misquote me. While I really can't understand how some people say Artest is not to be blamed at all. I am equally baffled by people saying that the Detroit fans shouldn't share the blame.
anyone know if a link to the ful video of the fight? I have caught it on ESPN, but it is just little snipts of the whole thing.
Regarding the Mexican issue: I doubt the person who said it first had bad intent. However, do you ever find yourself saying "that british guy" or "that german guy", or "that French guy"? I'm not talking about referring to someone you know is French or German. But just some guy, Like the guy pinned by Artest. Did you have the urge to say "Artest pinned that French dude?", how about "Artest pinned that German guy". If not, ....why? Many times we don't even know we are being racist. I know you are not consciously trying to be a racist, but you kinda were. Besides, that "Mexican guy" was probably born in Cleveland, more American than the Ice Lander Guy Artest pinned.
Here is a live video of almost the whole shebang: http://members.fortunecity.com/eastrep12/index.html
Query: If NBA security cannot handle a couple of punk players and some thug fans, what happens if there is some type of terrorist attack during an NBA game?
I just saw this post and realized I pretty much posted the same thing in another post. So..........uh.......Good points Australian poster.
The power lineup Pacers had tonight with minutes played: EDDIE GILL 48 FRED JONES 48 JAMES JONES 43 AUSTIN CROSHERE 42 DAVID HARRISON 44 lol. Indiana's season is pretty much over. Magic 86- brawlers 83
Suspensions just announced: Artest & Stephen Jackson 30 games. Jermaine O'Neal 20 games. Ben Wallace 10 games. Indiana's season is toast.
I am very very unhappy with these punishments. 30 games is absolutely horrendous, you gotta be kidding me. Idiots. Wallace provoked the whole situation, he shoulda got whatever Artest got. And what happens to those maniacal fans? Modern day athletes are not role models. They should not be put up on this impossibly high pedestal. They are human beings, most are still essentially boys. This whole making an example thing is out of hand. I feel very bad for Ron Ron, but I guess he got what he wanted.
