and while i agreed with a lot the shootaround crew was saying, stephen A. saying for the fans to break it up was just ridiculous. yeah, we saw how the other fans fared against nba players. i don't think i wanna try my hand at being on the ass end of an asskicking.
That one guy with the cap on was trying to hold back Artest for awhile, try to control the situation, then he gets stupid and starts punching him.
I have no affinity for either team, especially Artest, but I mostly blame the punk Detroit fans for this one. You have to dish out suspensions, though, so it looks like Artest will get time off to promote his rap album. I say 10 games for Artest, 5 for Jackson, 1 for O'Neal, 1 for Ben Wallace. As for the lawsuits, the scary part for the Pacer players would be the fact that venue for the cases will be in Detroit. But I doubt if anyone gets rich off the deal. Criminally, maybe some misdomeanor assault charges against Indiana players and some fans by the Detroit prosecutor. Legally, the players may have exceeded their right of self-defense.
Now this is according to Jim Gray, but during Nba Fastbreak -when they were reviewing the tape- Jim actually said that the guy with the cap is the one who threw the cup at Artest.
Sorry, but I don't have time to read the entire thread now, so I'm not sure if any has mentioned this, but I just wanted to throw this idea out there. A few months ago, fans at a soccer match in Italy began throwing objects at opposing players, FIFA reacted with making the team plat in an EMPTY stadium for at least one game following the incident. If the NBA has any balls, they would do this to the Pistons.
then forever be immortalized on this bbs as for the topic while i think it was in artests right to go after the fan who threw the beer, i dont think the fans who were on the court (the two big guys in the rip jerseys) were necessarily going to do anything. In every reply I saw they came on the court and artest threw the first punch. They werent even in a stance to punch or anything. No forfeit of games but heavy suspensions, 10 games I would assume if not more. Jackson had no business whatsoever to be involved yet threw a lot of punches and was trying to go further when restrained by a teammate and was even egging the people on as he was walking into the locker room. He I think should get the most # of games.
Oooooh, I get it. This is another way Artest is promoting his CD. Sort of like 50 Cent being shot. Artest will go on to rap fame because he lived through the "Brawl in Detroit". lol! In all seriousness, this was horrible. Any fan that threw ANYTHING should be ashamed and embarassed. I couldn't believe those pricks, right in front of the camera, dumping drinks on top of the players as they were leaving to the tunnel. Any fan that got hit deserved it and there were MANY that will never get what they deserve. It's unfortunate, due to only a fraction of "fans", but I will definitely think lower of fans in Detroit now.
I will be bothered if Wallace gets suspended for less games than Artest. Artest was just playing basketball until Wallace made it personal, and then a punk fan decided he wanted to fight. I give Artest tons of credit for staying calm even after Wallace threw the towell in his face while he was being restrained.
You make a good point here -- labor negotiations are tense this year to avoid a lockout for next season, so there may be some wrangling going on here in the days to come. Stern's going to hold the fort and so will the Players Association -- it'll be interesting to see who gives first.
when they show artest being held in the middle of the court after all the punches were thrown, he has this wild paranoid look- constantly turning around waiting for the next attack. that kind of feeling, there is not one person on this board who has ever experienced it and thats how every pacer felt- surrounded by a 1,000 people who want to rip their heads off. i cant even imagine how that must feel. i think the beer toss started it all, after that the worst in everyone involved came out... btw people, gray annoys me also, but the shaky voice was from adrenaline. thats what happens when you are involved in a fight.
It was horrible, for sure, but to put it in perspective, it fails to compare with fans being trampled and crushed to death at soccer games in England and South America as a result of hooligans. - 94 fans die in 1989 in a stampede at a soccer game in Sheffield, England. - 39 die in 1985 stampede in Brussels after fights between British and Italian hooligans. - over 300 soccer fans die in riot after unpopular ruling by referees in 1964 in Peru v. Argentina soccer game. - 340 killed in Moscow soccer game in 1982 I'm sure I didn't cover them all.
I'll tell you why there won't be any type of restraining device (ie: hockey glass). I did a little research and found David Stern's comments regarding baseball brawls and other incidents and how he would deal with them in an article from April 2003. Sounds like complete crap Dave. Good job with the league.
The ironic thing is that if Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, or Jermaine O'Neal were to get traded to the Pistons, they would be worshipped by the same fans who turned them into a beer garden.
I cannot believe some of you people saying that Artest is justified in what he did. All he has to do is call security and point out the fan I bet they have plenty of tape and send his arse to jail. By Artest going into the stands is like another fan taking a swipe at you. If that was me I would be pressing assualt charges on Artest , jackson & oneal. what some people in this forum are failing to realize what would they have done if Artest in his fit of rage hurt one of your children, wife or girlfriend. I hope EVERY party involved in this altercation get prosivuted to the fullest extent of the law.
it's not so much that looking at it from afar says that artest was justified. if he does nothing, none of this happens. BUT, someone chunked a beer on his face, cup and all. it doesn't take a crazy person like artest to go crazy and wanna go after them. in the heat of the moment you can certainly understand why he did it. so maybe it's not "justified" but it's completely "understandable." somewhat justified, completely understandable. he'll get a punishment for not keeping himself from going into the stands, but it has to be mitigated by the fact he did nothing to cause it to happen.
wow those of you who are defending artest are such bsers. He was clearly trying to antagonize ben wallace by lying on the desk, not to mention his hard foul. Yes ben is normally a good natured guy, but hes 6-6 and cut like a mofkr, and he's not gonna take no sht from anyone, including artest. Artest is just insane. Literally. NO surprize anywhere. He didn't deserve the beer in the face, but he should not have gone up there. THere is no excuse. No heat of the moment bullshti. He started everything with the hard foul, then instigated by acting the way he did with a smirk on his face lying down with his legs crossed. Sucks for the little kids, and i agree, those individual fans are total idiots. I fully expect suspensions for oneal, artest, jackson and a lighter suspension for ben wallace. DOn't know how they're going to do the players off the bench suspension, lol because i dont think any of the players stayed on the bench.
the kids seeing this disturbing the other nasty thing is the way some fans looked like they were pulling players off and then punching the player they were pulling off the chair thrown makes it nasty all parties need to be punished.... esp the fans with lifetime bans... the detroit organisation for their fans and the poor security.. and the players, esp Wallace, Artest, Jackson and Tinsley for the broom at the end not sure about Jermaine O'Neal if all he did was punch that guy who was on the court then i am really not sure, sort of hope the players association sticks up for him on this fans on the court is wrong.. but maybe we want to end up with fences around our courts like in soccer, cricket in the subcontinent or in ice hockey
ESPN just showed this slowed down - step by step - and as much of a hothead as Artest was, the one clear thing out of this is that Detroit fans are a bunch of thugs & bums. Say what you want about what happened on the court, but fans have NO place i volving themselves - by throwing or rushing - things or themselves on the court. They were pissed at Artest? Well, their guy Wallace is the one who escalated it. ZERO business throwing things at Artest for it. Even when the Pacers had stopped fighting, some wannabe badass Pistons fan would run in and try to suckerpunch a Pacers guy. Detroits bum fans made the situation "scary." Even when thew players were gonna, these wanna be thugs were still attacking each other. Detroit's useless cops/security was more concerned about macing Artest than controlling the fans... Pathetic on everyone's parts but really f-ing pathetic on the part of the Pistons & their fans.
gray interviewed a detroit cop who said throwing a cup is assault and the law does allow a person to defend himself if assaulted. this from a detroit cop, not speaking about the specific incident but in general, obviously.
