ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Hawks 11/16/2004

What about JVG? I never felt so frustrated with him tonight. Before my frustration was mostly with the guards. But tonight, it's different. JVG was not callling the right plays at the right time, which leads to me doubting whether it's players fault or JVG's in the past two years.

If Tmac's points went down significantly this year and we are still struggling, I would say JVG needs to go.

 

Hey, you failed to read the mentality of our role players. Whenever we got some big lead or our role players happened to have hot hands, they would jack up shots instead of trying to pass inside. That's why Yao gave up posting up (that's just wasting his energy). You are giving too much execuse for the stupid guards and asking too much from Yao.

 

No offense against you. But same thing could be said about the guards too. You need to view things more objectively. If you had worked really hard to position yourself only to find the guards are moving towards another direction, what would you do? Some give up, some will re-position, some will set up picks. I saw Yao doming more of the last two. So I really don't what to tell you. But watch the game closely and objectively, you will probably find more about the game. Give the big fellow a break. He did all he could.

 

agree Clutch

for me Ward on a 3 year deal was always asking for trouble, damn someone buy the Rockets League Pass, they should have watched his games with th Spurs last year, he was deplorable

 

You make it sound like the Atlanta coach is incompetent and didn't watch Yao dominate during the 1st part of the game. The Hawks coach adjusted his defense in order to deny Yao the ball. Passing to a low post player that is being sandwiched is a turnover waiting to happen. However, this creates defensive weaknesses that the OTHER Rockets must be able to take advantage of. It's up to the coach to start drawing up Xs and Os. JVG looked like a deer in headlights with his inability to provide any strategy to his players offensively.

 

Totally agree. I am afraid I am becoming a JVG basher gradually. I used to like him a lot.

Please, JVG, don't do that to me.

 

I agree. That was the worst play out of the timeout that there can be. If it was TMac's decision to go shoot an outside jumper when he was bricking a lot, it's on him. JVG can call a good defense. He is no good on offense.

 

I know i watched the game. Tonight, it was JVG's fault. Guards made mistakes. But the plays were called by JVG. He didn't call the right plays at the right time. Period.

GEORGE BUSH LAUNCHED A WRONG WAR AT THE WRONG TIME IN THE WRONG PLACE...........

 

We are not talking about Ben Wallace with Tayshaun Prince laying in the weeds here. Or Lorenzen Wright and Stromile Swift. We are talking about Drobnjak and Harrington. If a team like the Hawks can shut down Yao with these guys then i do not like our chances. If anything, the Hawks were throwing a token front at Yao. It was simply not as good as the defense played by other teams. It's almost like a team only has to say, "Hey, we're fronting! Go away from Yao now!" And then we do go away from him.

Once again, if JVG was the one who decided to give up on Yao, then i take back my criticism of Yao.

 

Anyone that can criticize Yao on a night he scored 27 points, grabbed 10 boards and shot 87% proves that he can do no right in their eyes and will always find something to complain about.

 

JVG didn't decide to give up on Yao.

BUT IT'S HIS CALL TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING, GOT THE POINT?

Man, I am mad. Think, think twice, and think hard.

 

We lost to the f-king HAWKS?!?!?!

 

You're so wrong. Because she will hold THE ball instead of passing it.

 

wah wah wah wah... man what a bunch of crybabies... 4-5 and u girls all start panicking lol..

 

Do you ever get the feeling that the point guard just don't like Yao? Sometimes I think that's the only explanation of why they won't pass it to him in the post after busting his ass to get position. Charlie Ward and Tyronn Lue obviously don't know how to feed a big man or aren't willing to feed him. It's as if they almost spite him for being successful. Maybe this is just me being paranoid. I can't really figure it out.

I keep on thinking of guys on the Lakers who could feed Shaq. Brian Shaw and Derek Fisher could always get him the ball or they could knock down a 3 if they double teamed him. That was their job. They accepted it. The Lakers traded away Nick Van Exel, a better overall player, because he couldnt accept his role. We need to find some players who aren't greedy and can live with that role on the team. Grab some kid from the NBDL who'll just be grateful for a paycheck and will take orders. Right now, this roster is in trouble.

 

Damn, Ye Li looks good. I think recently she scored 37pts and grabbed abount 15boards in a game. But her shorts are too revealing.

With her on the court, Yao would be even less focused.

 

winwook, it's funny you said that because I have the same odd feeling. but to counter it.... i had the same feeling towards mo taylor last season but this season he's the only one that consistently is able to feed yao the ball. but it does seem as if they are purposely not getting him the ball... he posts and gets good position, they look at him for awhile and then dribble the other way or pass to the other side of the court... this is very frustrating esp. bec the well known lack of stamina on yao's part... if they would just get him the ball earlier he'd have more energy to play more minutes or more aggressively in the minutes that he plays, esp on rebounds.... he always has to re post on the other side... its almost as if they are playing keep away and yao reposts from side to side in an attempt to retrieve the ball... but anyways just a weird feeling i've been having the last few games

 

In my original post in the thread, i criticized Yao for not demanding the ball vehemently enough. I also criticized JVG for not making sure that Yao got the ball.

Then, you responded by saying that JVG's play calling is what took Yao out of his game.

Then, I basically conceded my point to you about Yao if indeed JVG is calling all the wrong plays.

Now, you're saying that JVG didn't go away from Yao? You're not making much sense. First you said Yao was not really involved at the end because of the bad playcalling. Then you said that JVG did not deliberately stop going to Yao. Who exactly is responsible for Yao's lack of involvement at the end of the game then? The guards?

 

This was not a simple fronting defense. They compromised their entire defense in order to disallow the pass into Yao. That's common sense for the opposing coach. Why would the Hawks' coach want Yao to get the ball when he was the leading scorer in the game? It was JVG's responsibility to start drawing up plays to take advantage of the defensive weaknesses presented. Get TMac involved. TMac was jacking up jumpers as if there was no strategy of going to the basket.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=241116001ATLANTA (AP) -- After an embarrassing performance three nights before, the Atlanta Hawks wanted to show some backbone at home.

"I don't want teams to think they can come in here and dominate us," Antoine Walker said. "We're still a long way from where we want to be."

Walker had 20 points and 10 rebounds, and the Hawks rallied from an 11-point deficit in the final 6:11 to beat the Houston Rockets 88-84 Tuesday night.

Yao Ming, who had 27 points and 11 rebounds, ended Houston's 0-for-10 skid from the field with a 5-footer with 18 seconds remaining, cutting Atlanta's lead to 86-84. But Jon Barry made two free throws to seal the win for the Hawks.

"We just melted down," Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "You've got to give them credit, they did a good job of pressuring us."

Reserve point guard Royal Ivey gave the Hawks a boost in the fourth quarter with a pair of foul shots before stealing a backcourt pass and driving for a layup for Atlanta's first lead of the game at 83-82. Ivey, a rookie, had 10 points.

"We got some good defensive stops," Ivey said after playing 26 minutes to starter Kenny Anderson's 22. "We were down 14 and we never gave up. We stuck to our principles. We fought back and pulled it out. My turn came early tonight."

Yao hit 13 of 15 shots, and Tracy McGrady scored 21 points, but the Rockets lost for the third time in four games. McGrady, who was despondent over Houston's late fade, was just 3-for-11 from the field in the second half.

"I think we let our guard down," McGrady said. "They turned it up another notch and we were just chillin' out there. We tried to bring our intensity back up and it was too late."

The Hawks pulled within seven on Josh Childress' layup with 6:57 remaining, but Juwan Howard answered 22 seconds later with a 10-footer that made it 80-71. After Walker missed a 3-pointer from the left wing, Jim Jackson put the Rockets up by 11 with a fast-break layup.

Houston missed a chance to build its lead back to six when Charlie Ward's 3-pointer rattled out with 3:40 remaining.

Walker, who has scored at least 20 points in all seven games, drove the left baseline and put back his own miss for an 85-82 lead at the 1:23 mark. He was eager for the announced crowd of 16,595 to see the Hawks end a two-game skid at home. Atlanta lost 103-88 to San Antonio on Saturday night.

"We haven't given them much to cheer about," Walker said. "It was a big win for us at home."

Reserve center Predrag Drobnjak played 31 minutes for Atlanta and finished with 15 points. Al Harrington added 14 and Childress 12 for the Hawks, who outscored Houston 52-38 in the paint.

"We slash a lot," Harrington said, "so we're going to get a lot of points in the paint."

The 7-foot-6 Yao had only one offensive rebound in the second half.

"They forced the ball out of Yao's hand, forced him off the block," McGrady said. "That made everything tough for us. Down the stretch they wanted it more than we did and they had more intensity."

Game notes
Hawks C Jason Collier started but played only eight minutes. Atlanta coach Mike Woodson went with Drobnjak, who is 10 pounds heavier than the 260-pound Collier. ... Ward shot just 1-for-6 and missed all five 3-point attempts. ... McGrady was 1-for-6 on 3s. ... Atlanta outscored the Rockets 12-2 on fast-break points.





it is JVG's fault that he didnt even try to setup yao in offence in 4Q.