The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

This is such bs. He gets into the lane at will and is now converting at a high clip and creating open 3 pt attempts for his teammates. He is doing exactly what a pg needs to do.

 

Crazy that anyone would consider Amen our best player as opposed to Sengun, who is already the 3rd best center in the NBA at only 23 years old. 2 years from now Sengun will be shooting 40% from 3 and whoever started this thread will look like an even bigger fool.

 

I just said there’s a possibility and cause for optimism he improves his 3. Likely catch and shoot. But that’s a great improvement over what he is now.

I think a good example is Jerami Grant.
Grant was s poor 3pt shooter in college. This carried into the NBA and he didn’t shoot much mid range. He developed a mid range shot around year 5 and improved his 3pt% drastically around this time. He became a consistent 3 pt and mid range shooter around this time and added a post game year 6. He can now pullup, post or drive.

I think this is cause for optimism for Amen. I want to see him add at least a post game and catch and shoot 3 point shot.

 

Bro tracking and technology dont lie. This isnt based on perception and feelings its just the cold hard objective truth.

We can see it today Amen cant really do anything when the Blazers zoned up. They guarded Reed 2x more fiercely than Amen.

Amen is one of the most gifted players in the NBA its not just his athleticism he has feel, coordination and body control that is elite as well. He should be taking notes from how Deni Avdija plays cuz thats how his playstyle should be, attacking the hoop aggressively almost every play.

 

Can I ask where you got this theory about pull up jumpers? Am I correct in assuming it's just something you're guessing by eye test?

On my first guess I thought of SGA - a top 2 player in the NBA. In his prime, SGA is a 35% pull up shooter. I'm sure if Amen were shooting 32% on pull up 3's only, we'd be fine.

Moreover, Amen is often considered the most athletic player of all time. Whatever advantage a player like Giannis has in one athletic trait, Amen is still at the top of the list of athletic outliers. So if that's what you need to overcome the lack of a pull up jumper, Amen has the best chance of all. And there were plenty of people saying Giannis' jumper was an insurmountable problem before he won a title.

The really major flaw of your theory is: the norm of what is needed to win a championship is broken all the time. That's exactly why you're saying "in 2025". Because there were different norms and there will be different norms in the future too.

There are so many factors that go into winning a championship that to be honest it can't even be taken seriously that a single players mediocre pull up jumper would make it impossible in the position-less era.

 

The offense goes from crappy to crappier the moment teams pack paint / zone and dare Amen to shoot … then without Alpi he just kinds of dribbles around ..with Durant working in midrange (and not being a great passer) we don’t make the adjustment of getting Amen in dunkers spot

 

When opponents are doing the zone the dunkers spot wont be there, esp when Portland ran two big lineup the whole game. The dunkers spot is open because KD gets a double team and then when Sengun gets the ball he gets a double team. That creates a gap in the opponent defense where Amen can go for a lob. But when Sengun is gone there isnt a gap for Amen.

Thats why I dont consider Amen a max player yet he cant carry the team like KD or Sengun. When teams pack the point he is kinda reduced to dribbling on the perimeter and hoping our shooters make our shots. Like I keep saying he should be watching Deni play, Deni also isnt the best 3 pt shooter and Portland has a bunch of bigs who cant shoot but Deni can still drive to the hoop and get fouled. Passing to open 3s is nice but he should be able to score first and be a threat when the shooters arent hitting. Sengun for example scores more than he passes.

Amen does these highlight drives that leave you in awe but he only does this a couple of times a game he should be doing it almost every play.

 

Amen has scored 24 points the last two games. Almost all of those have been driving into the lane. Zone does affect his game. Wihen Sengun is out and the other team is playing zone, Amen should be the guy in the middle receiving the pass and either creating for himself or passing out to the spot up shooters, not standing on the perimeter. That is on Ime.

 

I 100% agree with this.

Amen should be a lot more aggressive on offense then he is and I had that same thought last night, Deni drives...A LOT, probably most in the league?

That should be Amen, he should be driving, seeking out contact, getting to the line, especially since for whatever reason he's a good FT shooter. He needs to be relentless when attacking.

If you look historically at elite guards that couldn't shoot, it was usually because they were elite at driving and were ruthless at attacking the rim. Whether it be Rose or Russ or Wade and he does need to get into that mentality of just going at the rim, creating contact, getting calls.

But yep, right now dude is completely broken once teams pack the paint and go to zone.

 

If Sengun can shoot a viable % of 3 on ok volume that completely changes teh Rockets offense, but considering he has made 1 (ONE!) Three Point Field Goal Attempt since November 24 - how do you see this happening?

Remember on opening night, when Sengun hit an improbable 5 3PT baskets?

Thus far that one night - opening night - constitutes 25% of his 3PTFGM and the season is almost half over.

 

I trust no one from this young core to be a serious #1 option for a team trying to contend, and KD is 37 and on limited time

We should already be thinking about who will be the KD replacement to be our 1st option on offense.

 

Finally getting to the real crux of the matter!

We start two guys who can’t shoot (sometimes we play three who can’t shoot) and we ultimately may have to choose between the two? Are we ready to have that conversation? (Barring one of them getting a legit shot and not a hot streak)

I know Amen fans are adamant the shot is coming.

Taking the center hub with limited range and “ehh” defensively.
Taking the all-defensive dunker with no range? And trading the center (much like trading Capela to accommodate Westbrook, and you’re starting PJ Tucker & Bob Covington at center)

Or neither?!

Sengun at 32%(31.7) on 63 attempts (20-63). Hasn’t made a three since Dec. 1. Hasn’t taken a three since Dec. 21. 1-15 going back to that December 1 game.

Amen at 19%(19.2) on 73 attempts (14-73). Same time frame (Dec. 1), 6-37 (16%)

 

deserves its own statistics-only thread

 

Amen is the least of our problems. He can defend and drive at least. The other 2 can't nothing. Here are the biggest problems.

1. Ime
2.Jabari
3.Reed

 

I think he's already got great touch and will continue to improve. It would help if he had a PG who could get into the paint and pass back out for clean looks. Right now he's the PG.

 

ROLE PLAYER

 

Let's check in on the latest offense gravity figures at NBA.com:

Among the 266 qualifying players, Amen ranks 233rd (-5.0) and dead last on the Rockets.

KD is 2nd (+17.2) in the league between Steph and Luka.

Reed is 37th (+5.7) in the league and 2nd on the team.

Sengun is 67th (+3.0) and 3rd on the team.

Are these gravity stats the best estimate of a player's overall value on offense? Probably not. I certainly don't think there are 232 players in the NBA better on offense than Amen.

But what these stats do tell you is that opposing teams do not consider Amen to be our best player - they can praise him to the media, but on the court they're barely guarding him.

 

This. I have more faith that Alpi's three will improve than Amen's.

 

I think its possible Amen could drive more, but Rose and Russ are Steph Curry compared to Amen.

Defenders at least had to somewhat respect that they would shoot and hit the occasional 3 or long 2 when they had the ball..

Even Giannis has hovered around the mid 20s to 30s for his career.

Amens 27% last year is looking like an extreme aberration and that was mostly from the corners on catch and shoot.

When he has the ball in his hands he is basically a complete non factor to shoot a long range shot off the dribble.

Even Brick Castle is a better shooter than Amen.

As ball handlers theres bad shooters, awful shooters and then theres Amen who is basically a complete non shooter.

Think about this....Rondo, who for most of his career we would all consider the posterboy for being a non factor from range as a pg, never had a season where he shot as bad as Amen.


Not only do I think that this hurts his own ability with the ball in his hands, but it hurts the team. Even Jalen who I am not a fan of at all was a much better option as a ball handler.

That said, I still have hope he can become at least a 30% guy on catch and shoot. But I just think Amen as a pg and main ball handler shouldnt be a thing in the half court offense. His high end as a player imo looks a lot more like his first two years than this year.