I like John Oliver but these videos are too long for me to consume in bits. Gemini TLDR: TLDR: Felony Murder Explained by John Oliver The core argument is that the felony murder rule is an outdated and unjust law that allows people to be convicted of murder for a death that occurs during the commission of a felony, even if they did not intend to kill, did not physically do the killing, and were not even present. Key Aspects of the Law Definition: Felony murder allows anyone involved in a dangerous felony to be charged with murder if someone is killed during that crime [01:36]. For example, the getaway driver can be charged with murder if their accomplice kills a bank teller [01:43]. Easy Conviction: It is easier for a prosecutor to obtain a conviction under felony murder than standard first-degree murder because they only need to prove the defendant committed or aided in a felony that led to a death, not that they intended to kill [04:10]. Severe Punishment: Eleven states and the federal system mandate life without parole for all felony murder convictions [04:28]. Around half of US states also allow the death penalty for these unintentional killings, with 11 people executed since 1985 despite not committing the homicide [04:34]. Extreme and Unjust Examples The video highlights the law's broad and often absurd application: Vicarious Liability: A man was sentenced to life without parole for a murder over a mile away because he merely loaned his keys to his roommate, who then used the car for a burglary where a killing occurred [03:08]. Killed by a Third Party: In some cases, people are charged with the murder of their co-defendant, such as the "Elkhart 4" in Indiana, where teens who broke into a house were charged with the murder of their friend after the homeowner shot him [07:22]. Killed by Police: A 15-year-old in Alabama was sentenced to 65 years for a robbery during which his friend was shot and killed by a police officer [09:06]. Non-Physical Harm: People have been charged after co-defendants overdosed on drugs or when a frightened victim died of a heart attack during a robbery [08:54]. Societal Impacts Mass Incarceration: The threat of a massive sentence under felony murder is often used to pressure people into taking plea deals for lesser charges, making it a "quiet driver of mass incarceration" [10:27]. Disproportionate Impact: The law is applied disproportionately to non-white people and young people [13:50]. For instance, Black people in Wisconsin make up 76% of those incarcerated for felony murder despite being less than 7% of the state's population [14:23]. Failed Deterrent: There is little evidence that the felony murder charge works as a deterrent against criminal behavior [17:50]. Conclusion The video concludes that the law should be abolished, as England and other common law countries did decades ago [06:02], [19:00]. Some states, like Minnesota and California, have taken steps to limit the scope and, in some cases, retroactively resentence those convicted [19:11].
Even though (according to Gemini) there are no mentions of corporate prisons in this video, there are two industries where private companies should be banned: Education and Prisons. You put a dollar amount on someone's life and there are reasons to lie and cheat to keep them in the system.
That is another Video But I did not want to confine this to one part of the Prison System The long story short is . .. .we incarcerate too many people in this country Rocket River
I don't think it should be abolished but you need to tighten up the reigns on crazy judges and prosecutors. Life sentence for loaning your car keys should be cruel and unusual punishment unless there is more to the story than that.
He and his friends discussed breaking into the victim's home, stealing a safe, and beating her. He loaned his vehicle but didn't accompany them. Ryan Holle Article The governor commuted the life sentence to 25 years, and he was released after 20. He'd refused a 10-year plea offer before trial.
The Pleas are ridiculous Alot of times its more of. . . . . We know you didn't do this but we have a 50 50 chance of convicting you any way . . plus it will cost you Thousands to fight it and we know you don't have it So . . .take this or get life Rocket River
It should be abolished. I've worked in prisons and have seen what a shitshow private prisons are with warehouses filled with cages and no security at the front entrance. My wife worked as a librarian at The Art Institute and saw what a scammy scummy place it was- 'counselors' were just salespeople and they would bring in borderline r****ded people to try to test in, and they straight up told vets that they could abuse the GI Bill to get free rent as long as they showed up for class once a semester. The goal is to cut costs and maximize profits. It has nothing to do with the wellbeing and future of the people who are there.
I’m not sure you would like a system where people could never please bargain. I also think that, if you dislike the concept of felony murder, the correct target of your ire is the legislature who passed the law, not the prosecutor or the judge.
I agree that the main culprit is the politicians who passed the bill, however, morality has to come into play with the judge/prosecutors.
Sure, morality is an issue for anyone in a position of power. But enforcing laws as they are written is part of the job for both those groups. I saw your post earlier about private prisons and, while that is a separate matter entirely, it’s worth mentioning that only 8% of inmate are privately incarcerated in the US. I agree that it should be zero percent.
Don't forget immigration detention centers. Private prison stock shot up when Trump was elected again. They knew.
Here is an example of how bad it can be. Judges aren't held accountable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Personal Bias cannot be weeded out and I don't think we can legislate morals but we need more limits. Sentences should not be getting longer Some crimes should be reduced to fines Some rehabilitation should be taken seriously The Law should be fair but it rarely is Rocket River
District attorneys have huge amounts of discretion in how they perform their job, who they charge and what charges they bring. They are some of the most powerful and [should be] scariest people on earth for the average citizen. If they want to **** your life up, they can and they will. They aren't slaves to the legislature or statutes. To suggest otherwise is silly.
Exactly At each step of the process the person's bias rigs the system A cop - picks and chooses who to stop and who to let get off and who to not Then of those that the Cops send on . .the Prosecutor picks and chooses who to prosecute/plea bargain or let off Then of those that are Prosecuted . .. the Judge will choose who is guilty/innocent and how harsh the penalty Rocket River
If you're going to respond to me, try not to put words in my mouth. What I said was, in the context of felony murder (which is what this thread started with), if you don't like the felony murder law as it is written, then that's a legislative issue. I've practiced in different states with different felony murder laws, and different laws certainly affect what cases are charged as murder and what are not. Your word choices makes me think you're just anti-DA in general, regardless of who is making those decisions. District Attorneys are the real boogiemen to you, I'm sure, unless they're making decisions that align with your politics.
Feds have something like a 95% conviction rate State has something like a 90% conviction rate. If you're indicted those are the odds you're looking at. Even if you successfully defend yourself, most people are financially ruined from financing their defense. The real power is held with the person deciding whether to bring charges or not, the District Attorney. Some cases are 100% obvious and everyone agrees they should be brought. Then you get down to 50-50 coin flips. Sometimes you may get even lower depending on the DA. A single person with all their bias/prejudices/failings/faults with that much power is terrifying and it's not talked about nearly enough.
That is weird how they can turn that murder charge around on the criminals in some of those cases. I guess know the law before you go out to commit crimes because you could be unusually charged if something goes awry. Also, I never thought I would see a reason not to loan out a car as the one documented where the person you loaned it to did the deed but you had no idea and thought he was just running an errand or something. It's kind of twisted justice they are applying here. I wouldn't want to be the guy who loaned out the car. That's all I know. Geez.
