Starting Lineup looks great. Though, I will say the Sengun, Durant, Thompson lineup without Smith and Reed is +18 Ne Rating per Cleaning the Glass. Sengun and Reed have been hugely impactful to Net Rating stats for players/lineups. Basically, Sengun, Amen, Durant, JSJ, Okogie, Eason, and Adams all have worked well together outside of the Dallas game. Lineups with these 7 are +20. Remove JSJ, +19. I think the Amen, Okogie, Eason, Durant, and Sengun lineup is the only one without Reed that has performed poorly with rotation players only. Reed is getting better, but there is a huge gap between him JSJ, Okogie, Adams, and Tari.
I asked this before, but what does “role player” mean to people? To me, the third/fourth most important player on a contender isn’t a “role player.” MPJ wasn’t a role player for Denver, neither was White for Boston, Draymond for GS, etc.
What impressive so far into this season is, Jabari’s most points are coming when other teams start making a comeback or were at the cusp of getting blown out. He was the one that stop the bleeding and make it one possession game when they were pulling away or take us to double digit lead.
Jabari's only weakness is his mentality. If he continues being confident its just over for the league. He can get the same shots that KD gets (shooting 39.4% from three) and you could tell we missed him badly vs the mavericks. He is also one of the league leaders in defensive win shares. His help defense and ability to block shots is so underrated.
Role player fills a specific need for a team in the rotation, but usually isn't a primary playmaker on offense or the backbone of the defense. Role players have to play a lot, and there are generally 1-3 on the court at all times for great teams. I think "role player" has developed a negative connotation.
See, I just don't think Bari fits this definition. He does more than fill a "role." I think there are at least four categories of players: (1) stars/primary playmakers/defensive anchors (Amen, Sengun, Duran) (2) critical players/6th MOTY candidates/high quality starters (Bari, potentially Eason) (3) high quality role players (Okogie, Adams, etc.) (4) depth players/developing young players (Capela, Sheppard, etc.) I believe the current contractual landscape backs this up. The first category makes max/near max, the second category makes 20m+, the third makes 15m or less, the last are either on vet minimums or rookie contracts. So, because Okogie is clearly ascending from depth player to role player, I expect he'll have offers in the role player range, but not 20m+.
Critical players/6th MOTY (this role is even named)/high-quality starters are all role players that you've just segregated out. Does JSJ have over 60% of his made shots come from assists? If so, he's an offensive role player as he's dependent on others. You aren't performing more than a role if you are heavily dependent on others. Is JSJ the fbackbone of the defense or can other players substitute in for his role without defensive rating dropping a lot? You aren't performing more than a role if others can take your place.
Sorry, I just don’t agree. If what you’re saying is true, there wouldn’t be such a clear delineation in contract value. This board is way to reductive in classifying players as “role players.” Oh, and by the way, I think Bari’s impact is arguably near the level of Amen, Sengun, and Durant. Among players averaging 25 or more minutes per game, Bari is 7th in NetRTG (above Durant) and his OFFRat is 3rd in the nba (above Amen and Durant, whereas Sengun is first). I don’t think our offensive and defense are nearly as effective without him, nor can you replace him with another quality player like Eason and have the offense and defense function nearly as well. In that regard, the ceiling for both our offense and defense are pretty "dependent" on Bari.
You don't agree that role players play roles? There is a negative connotation for role players, but you are either a star, role player, or not good enough to be either. On Net Rating, it is clear that playing with the better players matters for Net Rating. Net Rating playing with rotation players other than Reed Sengun 19.6 Durant 22.9 Amen 17.9 JSJ 20.6 Tari 18.3 Okogie 15.9 Adams 29.7 Reed -1.8 For 7 games, that is really close other than Reed and Adams. Personally, I think Sengun, Amen, and Durant have been the stars with Adams, JSJ, Tari, and Okogie being the good role players. The Rockets have enough stars and good role players that when they play 5 of their best 7 players, they tend to play very well (i.e., the the stars and role players have similar Net Ratings). In previous seasons, it was much easier to tell who was making a difference with raw Net Rating and On/Off numbers. With as deep as the Rockets are, stats like EPM or Darko that look at who else is on the court (team and opponents) are likely needed to determine which players are better. It is still too early for those stats to adjust to improvements
36% from 3 is not a brick layer. And I predict he’ll finish the season at 38% This is Bari’s leap yr; he’s only 22. Younger than many of the guys just drafted.
I don't think NETRating is very helpful unless you standardize minutes. You can't compare Bari - who is averaging almost 35 minutes a night - to a guy like Adams, who is averaging 22. Among guys playing 30+ minutes per night, Bari is towards the top in both Net and Offensive rating. Sorry, you'll never convince me someone like that can be classified as a "role player." Your question - "does Bari play a role?" - is not the right question. Everyone plays a "role." The question is: "Is Bari ONLY - or at least primarily - on the team to play a specific role?" The answer to that question is no. He is not here just to hit 3s, or play defense, or grab rebounds. He's here because our starting offense and defense is far less effective without him.
Role players play a role. Star players lead the team mostly on offense. (Only very few defensive players are viewed as "stars") Usually a team has two stars at the most. All other guys are role players who support the stars. Right now Sengun is our star. Amen's offense is still too raw to be a star. But he is one of those few defensive player who is a star simply by his defensive impact. Durant is a special case. He is normally a star. But at this stage of his career, he might take a back seat and play a role to support our stars. OKC has only one star in SGA. But they have at least two elite role players in Chet and JDub. Denver has only one star in Jokic. Golden State has one star in Curry. Draymond is a great role player. He has never been a star even at the height of the GSW dominance. TLDR: Star players are the guys you build around. You find good role players that fit well with them, not the other way around. Ask yourself, is Jabari a guy you try to find good role players around him, or is he a good player to support our stars?
Again, I just don't agree with this. I just don't believe there are only stars and role players. If that's your belief, that's fine. I'm just not onboard. How teams are designing contracts shows that there are many different subcategories beyond "star," and lumping players who make 20 or 30m+ in the same category as guys on minimum or near minimum contracts is ridiculous IMO.
Also, to be clear, if you believe "high end role player" is the second most important designation on a team - and there are other subcategories below that - then I'm fine with that. But there has to be some differentiation between categories of players. Basically claiming there are "stars" and then everyone else is simply not based in reality. At the end of the day, do I think we are contenders? Yes. Would we be contenders without guys like Okogie, Adams, and Sheppard? Probably - at the very least, losing them for a while wouldn't kill our chances. We also wouldn't have to trade the farm to replace their impact. Do I think we're contenders without Bari? No. And I don't think you can replace his impact without a massive trade.
Jabari is learning to shoot from the elbow like KD. That is great shot against shorter defenders and most are shorter than he. He look ok.
Adams playing 320 minutes with the good rotation players is not enough for Net Rating to be useful, but 19 minutes of Tari with Amen, Okogie, Durant, and Sengun is enough to make Net Rating useful to show Tari isn't worthy of starting. Gotcha. That is what people say about role players they like.
Like KD, when Jabari rises up to shoot that jumper, nobody can block their shots. We have created this monster lineup with long bigs that can shoot and rebound. This will be a nightmare for the rest of the league.
