Lars and Metallica and anyone else who say Napster is illegal are hypocrites. Let me explain. There is no such thing as "Original" music. Every style of music has been done and re-done. Musicians learn their craft by listening to other musicians. Example: Eddie Van Halen was influenced by Eric Clapton who was influenced by Muddy Waters, who was influenced by Robert Johnson and so on. Every musician admits to "borrowing" from other musicians. I am not a Metallica fan so I don't know who influence Lars, but he learned his drumming by copying someone. The business of music is all about stealing from someone else. Weather it be Brittney Spears (flavor of the moment) clones (Mandy Moore, Christina Aguilara, etc.) or Backstreet Boys (NSYNC, etc.) The Music industry uses these "artists" till they have no need for them anymore. They then move on to the next "Big Thing" So before Lars shoots his mouth off about stealing, he should think about how he got to where he is. ------------------ "When your dead, anything's funny."-John Lennon
As soon as they make money and milk freely downloadable, I'll be the first in line to steal them. LOL! Most of these statements are made by artists that probably don't even understand the technology. I agree with you that the fact that people who use the technology may be stealing, but Napster, the company itself, is doing nothing wrong. The people using it are. The equation is that simple. Go after the people, not the company. ------------------ Just shut up and post
My two cents ... I will start buying CD's again on only two accounts: 1) They drops the prices to something reasonable. It cost pennies to produce the CD, so I would say 5 bucks a CD sounds reasonable to me ... still plenty of profit to be made! or .... 2) The artist/recording studios start making a lower salary per year than I do ... This goes for the same thing with software ... ------------------
Lars Ulrich is a hypocrite. This quote is included in the liner notes for the 1998 Metallica album "Garage, Inc.": [I would] "stay over at his house for days making tapes of his records and sleeping on the carpet." - James Hetfield, describing his early friendship with drummer Lars Ulrich.
We're robbing the artist? I find that hard to beleive when their cut of cd sales is so miniscule (I have a handful of friends in the industry so I know I'm not too far off on this one). What's funny is cd sales actually rose last year 15% (give or take). Napster IS many things; it is NOT however a boon on the industry. It affords us the opportunity to make an educated decision on whether or not to purchase a cd, it allows us to experience music we'd normally never hear on the radio, and provides an alternate avenue with which budding and struggling artist to distribute their music. Killing Napster solves nothing either. With newer, slicker, stealthier clients on the web such as Gnutella, mp3 distrubution will continue well into the future. Metallica can choose to ride the wave or be buried under it (I wouldn't mind seeing them buried). ------------------ "President of the He-man Croshere Haters club"
I'm not saying I'm correct....we just see things differently is all. I'm sure Lars and whomever else is fighting this because they believe, as I do, that if the Napster-like ways continue, the Net will be so saturated with music and technology will have evolved so far that there will be absolutely no need to go out and buy any music anywhere because all the high quality music is just a button click away any time. And bands everywhere will have no reason to produce music if there is no money to be made off of royalties. They might as well just tour and introduce new stuff so bootleggers can have their way. It will change the face of the music industry eventually. Once MP3 recorders are abundant in the population, there will be no reason to buy the CD if you can download the same music for free in MP3 format and burn your own MP3 disc giving you CD-like quality. I'll just hook my MP3 device up to my car stereo or home receiver and I am happy . A great deal for us...a bad deal for the non-consenting musicians. Yeah yeah...it's not Napster...it's the people who use Napster. Well, if I burned a few copies of a tape or CD of .wav files and distributed it to friends, I'm sure nobody would care. But, if I burned thousands upon thousands of copies of the CD, had some third party with connections distribute the movies freely to anyone and everyone whereever, then my ass and the distributor's ass would be in prison. That is essentially how I view Napster...as the means to distribute this material whether the intent is illegal in nature or not. You can't bust all the end users....you can only stop the medium used to distribute the material. Although, it would be funny if Metallica tried to sue some of it's fans . Some of these tools do the same things with software like games, etc.. It's certainly not legal for me to download copyrighted games like Diablo II or Quake III using such a tool. I fail to see how copyrighted music is any different....music, software...it's all intellectual property. It was not made with the intent to be freely distributed. We can debate this all we want...I don't care....it's not going to change anything. Eventually, Congress or whomever is going to have to find a way to control and enforce restrictions/laws on the Web. If you can get all your stuff for free on the Web, more power to you. I don't give a rat's ass. But, if I'm the one who's material is getting ripped off, then...yeah...I'm pissed off and I'm going to try and stop it like Metallica and Dr. Dre are. End of story. Surf ------------------
I agree it's stealing, but Napster again, is still not at fault. The people using Napster are at fault. Heck, they're using ISP's to transfer the illegal files, let's shut them down. Or I bet 95-99% of all pirated files on the 'Net flow across a Cisco router... dammit, let's shut Cisco down... they're aiding in the distribution of illegal material! Yup, they're going to try to enforce several things and fail miserably. Let's look at the history of "enforcing" : VHS Recorders are alive and well. DVD copy-protection has been cracked. Remember the good ol' days when software was copyrighted with a million different copy-protection schemes? Ever notice how they're not so prevalent anymore? Why? They failed. All I'm saying is this : Artists deserve to get paid for their work. Artists shouldn't have their work stolen from them. However, Napster is doing nothing wrong and I will support those guys to win any court case. I think it'll happen. The RIAA is paranoid that they're fat over-priced CD sales will suffer when all indications are, it hasn't. Interestingly enough, there are several other Napster copycats out there... the RIAA is going to have one heck of a time in court... better grab a Milky Way. Regarding Metallica suing their "fans", they've already threatened to do that, but know it's not economically feasible for them to do so. I'm sure Dre can handle it... he's a "cop killer" so if taking a life is nothing to him, I'm sure losing a few CD sales wouldn't even register on his scale of "bad things". Otherwise, he'd kind of be a hypocrite... *cough* *cough*. ------------------ Just shut up and post
1. i use napster a lot. a lot a lot. basically i have half my hard drive geared towards mp3s. now that gnutella is out and a host of other clones.. getting music is simple. 2. i don't burn CDs.. but i would if i had the time.. make my own "best of" 3. napster is a useful tool.. just like tape recorders or videocassette recorders or whatever that's out there. don't tell me you have never recorded a song off a radio station somewhere. napster takes that to another level.. the internet.. and it's scaring the hell outta the music industry.. either you go with the flow, or you get trampled underneath the hordes of internet denizens out there who are gonna break your codes and your restrictions and anything else that you can come up with. think about the history of mp3s. when i was first in college.. it was only available at certain ftp sites.. you set one up and people find it by links on your site. the music industry shut that down.. then scour.net came out.. and pirate ftp sites popped up at obsure plafes.. then as those were being shut down (unsuccessfully) napster came along.. now you access a central server that directs you to personal computers of the registrants... now as that battle is being fought in the courts.. gnutella comes along.. instead of a central server.. each user uses the program to refer anyone that logs onto their computer to ALL of the names that they have.. so how are you gonna track that? shut down each person on the net? cuz there is no central server! and what comes next? how are you gonna fight this? it's time that the music industry realize that it can't rip off customers anymore.. even after all the cost of production and royalty payments and executive salary.. the musicians are getting way more than what they should be getting.. same goes for the movie industry or any other entertainment industry. the net was built on one premise: exchange of information... and this is a very logical extension of that. 4. sure.. make it illegal.. but unlike prohibition.. this is one law that can't be enforced, and it is contrary to logic. i think rather than make it illegal. the music industry should ally themselves with these technology (which eventually will be consolidated) and charge a percentage.. however small.. to use their creative property. rather than block the technology.. go with it. ------------------ rat-a-tat-tat, who lost a Cat?
It is understandable because they are scared for their stockholders and their bank accounts, but that doesn't mean the have a legit claim/beef against Napster. Just my opinion, but the record industry is fighting a losing proposition here. Many things that may facilitate illegal behavior are produced by legal companies. Radar detectors are legal, drug paraphernalia is legal, many bomb materials are legal, cars that drive over 75 are legal. It is how you put things together or actions by citizens using them that are illegal. I have yet to here illegal activities Napster is doing even if it “sucks” for recording companies, Dr. of Dunk was the only one to go down that path and he has validated more of my initial thoughts. Competition is a b****. The internet and electronic companies might be hurting papermills and book companies too, but what are you going to do but adapt. Just like Netzero or network TV, recording artists may just go more commercial. It is not like the already aren't, with product endorsements and $50 concert seats, if bands are smart and just want to make dough, they will just try to give away all their free music and capitalize on the exposure. ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."
This whole thing is a bunch of BS... how different is this from borrowing a CD from a friend and recording it? This the same thing. If Metallica has unreleased songs on Napster, then they need to look at the people that they have working for them. Metallica are a bunch of b*tches... they used to encourage bootleg's of their music and live shows...and now this? I use the hell out of Napster, I downloaded a whole CD before it was released. I also went and bought the SAME CD when it WAS released. I wanted the liner notes, artwork, etc... If people want a CD their gonna buy it.. I have 2 CD burners, one for my home stereo and one for my computer. I make mixes for myself and friends. I think the problem arises when you start SELLING these homemade CD's...like I said, I don't see this as being any different from borrowing a cd and recording it... The opponents of Napster aren't tackling that now are they? With Napster, you just have ALOT more friends! Metallica sucks! Dr. Dre is is a punk! and Napster rules. so.. to answer your questions 1)YES 2)YES 3)Very useful 4)NO rockHEAD ------------------ *** THIS SPACE FOR LEASE ***
I use NApster and have no problem with it. I would also have no problem if it was deemed illegal and no longer possible as I do see that side of the argument. But why would I go out and pay for osmehting when I can get it for free. It isnt like stealing a car. I am not stealing a song from Metallica, I am borrowing a song from another anonymous perosn online. If they really want to make this illegal they can. But this ownt bring down the CD industry. If these executives were really smart, tehy would find ways to cash in on the NApster wave. They should go heavily into CDRW, etc, and they can tie promotional gear onto the napster site so that they can increase sales even further. There are ways around things. Sony has begun to position itself for the online music industry pretty well and others shold follow that lead in my opinion. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Napster is no more illegal than a used CD store (or any other kind of second-hand store). When you buy a used CD, the record company/artist doesn't get any of that money. ------------------ I Hate Every Bone in Your Body But Mine
I use Napster like its going out of style. I have already downloaded about...2 gigs worth of music and have burned countless CD's for myself. I save alot of money. If they outlaw it, I will just go back to what I use to do. I'll listen to the radio, wait for the song I want, record it on an MD, send it to my computer to burn the CD. Is there a difference whether I get it off the radio or not? Isn't it the same thing but with more up to date technology? Why don't movie stars b**** about people taping their movies off cable for their private collection? Its the same thing. HBO pays for their rights, but I don't. I pay 3 dollars a month towards my cable company to tape movies for my private collection. Whats the difference between what I do with movies and what I do with my MP3's? So, let me get this straight. They want me to pay 15 bucks for a product they spent about 2 bucks making, then spend 75-150 bucks on their concert tickets and souvenirs to hear the same damn songs? I don't sell what I download. I keep it for me. I don't see what the big fuss is about. ------------------ I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan
You all have very good points. I can see both sides of the argument. But, one thing's for sure, I'm never buying a CD ever again ! I may believe in copyrighted material but I'm not stupid. If I can get it free, I'm there. On another note, I can't wait until we all have webcams and rocket ball on the web where we can live video chat and watch the game for free and at the same time. This remains my dream. Screw NBA copyrights...LOL. Surf ------------------
I've got to agree. If I can get it for free then that's what I'm going to do. I'm not stupid either. I have not bought a CD in over 4 months. Makes no sense to do so. And unfortunately most of the world will agree with that philosophy. And yes. I know the artists are getting ripped off. And maybe yes. This does cross the line, but it happened. It exists. It is an economic factor. Demand Curves are shifting. The Artists must now figure out how to increase the demand for me to purchase a CD. So go to work you artists. Make me want to buy your CD. The market has shifted and now the artist must find that new market. Technology is an instrument of change. Don't fight it. Let it change how you do business. I'm sorry, but there is little you can do to fight progress. If you fight it, you die, just like the Cowboys and Dinosaurs. It's time for the music business to adapt. Oh, and they will. They always do. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
This year alone N'Sync, Eminem and Britney Spears had record breaking sales and their audience is the key demographic that uses Napster. It might hurt the smaller bands but it probably evens out by attracting new fans for concert tours (where artists make most of their money I believe).
no, please. Not without a farewell thread at least. Maybe even a vote. OH! And I would like to thank BoBfInn for introducing me to the wonders of the mighty Napster and that typing site. I am gonna be a real terror come chat time. ------------------ blah blah blah
CD's are collectors items. If you are a fan of Metallica, then you would go out and buy their CD even if the MP3's are available for free online. You would not think of the price because this is METALLICA your favorite group. Not all the MP3's on Napster are of good quality. Napster is here to stay, but I think instead of complaining, the record companies have to make buying CD's an incentive. Lowering the price on CD's would be a start. ------------------ It's all good! [This message has been edited by Smokey (edited July 16, 2000).]
Thank you all for some very interesting responses to this thread. You obviously all have strong opinions on this subject and i have enjoyed reading them. I would now like to pose another question to take this thread in another direction: What do you think the solution should be so that Napster stays in business yet the artists are somehow compensated (monitarily or otherwise) for their music being traded on Napster? ------------------ Bring It!!
CD prices may need to come down, but then, eventually we'll all have writable drives at home whether it be CD or DVD or something else. There is no "solution" because Napster should not be shut down. The solution is the same as with video recorders, tape recorders, cd writers, etc. You just "take it". There won't be a thing they can do to stop it. I feel bad for the musicians, but have no idea how they can get remuneration (damn, I always wanted to use that word and now that I have, I see that it's one jacked up word). This being said, I'd like to hear others voice their opinions of a solution if they think one exists. ------------------ Just shut up and post
