Newsbrief: Another Tulia in East Texas? http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/361/another.shtml A mid-October drug bust that netted 72 alleged crack cocaine dealers -- all black -- in the East Texas town of Palestine (pop. 17,000) is raising eyebrows at at least one widely-respected Texas publication. In a web-only special report, the Texas Observer is questioning whether modestly-sized Palestine really supported 72 crack dealers, why all those arrested where black, the nature of the state's ubiquitous drug task forces, and whether the state has another Tulia on its hands (http://www.texasobserver.org/showArticle_new.asp?ArticleID=3). As the magazine noted, "residents of Palestine must have been surprised to learn that their small town apparently had more crack dealers than restaurants." But in two days of arrests beginning October 13, teams from the Anderson County Sheriff's Office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the US Marshall's Service, and the DEA arrested a total of 72 people on various state and federal drug dealing charges. While the Observer found, unsurprisingly, that there were a handful of dealers in town, it also found that most suspects were charged with a single count of delivering crack to a confidential informant. None of those deliveries involved more than four grams, with some involving less than a gram. As the Observer noted, "Many of the suspects appear to be poor crack addicts swept up in the drug sting. Charged as dealers, they now face sentences of 20 years to life in state prison." In "The Usual Suspects," the Observer wrote: "Yet again, a regional drug task force targeted an African-American population in a small Texas town, charging apparent crack addicts as dealers. All of this brings to mind the now-infamous Panhandle town that has become synonymous with all that's wrong with the war on drugs -- Tulia." While the feds gobbled up the best cases, Anderson County prosecutors charged 56 people with distribution of crack. But in a numerical analysis of crack use patterns in rural areas, the Observer found that probably only about 70 people residing in Palestine smoke crack. The Observer strongly suggests that the vast majority of those arrested were no more than crack smokers. But prosecutors are determined to send them to prison for decades. The story will continue. "The number of suspects charged as dealers in Anderson County has attracted the attention of the ACLU, which has uncovered task force wrongdoing all over the state and is investigating the Palestine bust," the Observer concluded. "Meanwhile, prosecutors and the Dogwood Trails task force will soon get the chance to prove that Palestine was so awash in crack that all 72 defendants really were legitimate dealers. The first trials are scheduled to begin in early December."
It bears repeating that if the charges are true, then Palestine had more crack dealers than restaurants. It is also interesting that every single one of the people arrested were black and each and every one was arrested for dealing.
Putting 50+ crack smokers in prison for 'decades' ~ I love to see my tax dollars put to such a brilliant use... Get these people some help (jail is not help).
Yes, we should all get them help like the gracious judge gave Caminitti. Can you tell me that tax dollars to put him in prison would have been a waste? You commit a crime, you go to jail. If you dont like the law, fight it, dont commit the crime. As an example of the correct way to fight the law. I was in Austin probably 5 years ago when motorcyclists were lobbying to fight the manditory helmet law. They had facts, were professional in their presentition, and came well prepaired. Guess what, the law got changed. Why is it that you think 50+ people that knowingling violated a law (still speculation for this group) is the wrong thing to do. They get put in jail because they can obay the laws of the society they live it. So we need to seperate them from society.
I realize you won't accept it, but treatment is very effective in all but the hardest cases. Recovery rates approaching 70% have been noted for some programs, and that is without ANY outside funding and with a system that is corrupt and not set up to actually address the problems. The tax dollars to jail Caminetti would have been as absolutely wasted as the tax dollars for jailing any drug "offender" whose only crime is their choice of intoxicants. An EXTREMELY small percentage of drug users commit crimes outside of using drugs that some politician says are bad. Virtually none of them have any negative impact on society whatsoever and as such, jailing them because they prefer pot or MDMA or even crack to alcohol is a HUGE waste of resources that could otherwise be used to help people who actually have a problem when it comes to drugs. That is what I am doing here, fighting the law. The plain facts are that there is NO way that Palestine could have supported 70 drug dealers, which means that most of these people had charges trumped up against them and are now in all likelihood going to jail for quite some time simply because they are black and chose an unpopular intoxicant. The difference, of course, is that they were allowed to make their case in the first place. Prohibitionists don't even allow the debate to happen because they know that in a fair debate, they will lose. My example is Thom Marshall, a columnist for the Chronicle who for weeks put up a challenge for anyone to come debate him in a public forum. He had a public official answer and offer to debate him, an offer that was apparently rescinded when the person's supervisor put the kibosh on it. Prohibition is based on lies and it is perpetuated with lies. Officials will not allow a debate to happen because there is too much money in prohibition. If you truly think that drug users should be separated from society, then you have absolutely no understanding of this issue. We can get our kids off of drugs, but it will be impossible as long as prohibition rules.
What is "some" and can you provide any independant link(s) that can back up your above statistic. Specifically in the case of crack users. You are making the assumption that just because the bust was in Palestine, that they all operated out of the city. I dont see any facts in the article saying a single deal was done in Palestine. They were just busted there. What I said was that people that knowingly commit crimes should be seperated from society. In the US, using certain drugs is a crime. Everyone knows it is against the law (or should). Those who choose to break the law are choosing to suffer the prior stated cocenquences of that law. It shouldnt be a suprise. I have no problems with people doing drugs, just go to somewhere where it is allowed.
As a result of the US pushing prohibition on the world, there is nowhere in the entire world where coca derivatives or poppy derivatives can be safely used. This statement is like a white racist in the '50s saying "if the n****** don't like it, they can move back to Africa." If you choose to engage in meaningful debate, then I will respond, but you have chosen the "it's against the law, PERIOD" defense and have chosen to deflect attention from the main issue, which is a debate regarding the long term efficacy of prohibition as a policy. When you choose to debate that question, I will be happy to respond, but until then, you deserve nothing but a .
In all fairness, the thread is about a suspicious drug bust, and the consequences of prohibition, not the long-term effectiveness of it. You're attempting to make it about the long-term effects, and rvolkin is debating whether or not breaking the law is ever justified. Both are fine topics, and I don't think it's fair to say that all he deserves is a I agree that prohibition should be ended. Legalizing the use of drugs allows the government to have more control over what drugs these people put into their system, and who can have access to the drugs. The government can manufacture pure, "safe" drugs and sell them to the members of our population who insist on engaging in a pasttime that has been shown to be generally dangerous and undesirable. What the argument comes down to is this: The government does not have the right to tell you what you can or cannot put into your own body. However, simply because you disagree with a law is not cause to disregard it. You are a United States citizen, and must abide by the laws of the United States. If you choose not to, you face the consequences. Is jail time a deterrent to drug use? Probably, but not a huge deterrent. Should our drug policy be changed? Yes, but until then, you are obligated to follow the laws set forth by your state and the federal government. There are other ways to get laws changed than simply disregarding them and hoping people will have a change of heart. It's the same issue that was dealt with in the homosexuality thread not too long ago. People are more willing to listen to a discussion of homosexual rights when there isn't a gay pride parade going on, full of homoeroticism. That pushes the limits of decency. People are likewise more willing to listen to a discussion over our drug policy when the advocates aren't drug users seeking to justify their lifestyle. Justification of lifestyle applies to both cases. Don't just expect people to accept your decisions. Show them why it doesn't harm them to do so, and how it could actually turn out to be beneficial. And until then, andymoon, I don't think it's fair for you to attempt to limit the discussion to an area in which we are all well-versed on your positions and which you tend to dominate. That's your specialty, and that's fine. But as long as we're limiting our discussions to your area of expertise, it's going to be pretty hard to make any progress in the area of intellectual exchange.
Newsbrief: South Carolina Jury Refuses to Send Opium Smoker to Prison for Decades, Acquits Him of Trafficking Instead http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/361/opium.shtml A South Carolina prosecutor was ready to send a Laotian opium smoker to prison for 25 years as a drug trafficker, but that was too much for jurors to swallow. Instead, they found him not guilty and sent him home to his family, the York Herald reported last Friday. Yer Vang had survived slave labor camps and being hunted by Southeast Asian communists, but he nearly fell prey to a prosecutor long on vindictiveness and short on proportionality. Vang, a 44-year-old Hmong refugee, was arrested as he smoked opium in his living room after police came to the house in October 2003 looking for his son, who was suspected of selling Ecstasy. Police arrested Vang and seized nearly a pound of opium. Although Vang freely admitted being an opium addict and there was no evidence he had ever sold any of his stash, York County prosecutor E.B. Springs charged him with drug trafficking based on the weight of the seized opium. "It doesn't matter that he's an addict," Springs told the court. "Most crack dealers are addicts." Springs conceded there was no evidence Vang was an opium dealer, but told jurors he did not have to prove the Vang actually sold any opium because South Carolina law allowed a trafficking charge based on weight alone. But after defense counsel Chris Wellborn described Vang's life story to the jurors, they grew queasy at the notion of imprisoning him for decades. Vang was drafted into the Laotian military as a teenager, imprisoned for two years in a North Vietnamese POW camp, acquired his opium habit after a grueling trek back to Laos in 1975, then escaped to Thailand in 1978 and eventually made his way to the US, where he joined an estimated 300,000 Hmong refugees. As it deliberated, the jury sent a note to the judge asking whether it had to obey the spirit of the law or the letter of the law. But without waiting for the judge's response, a few minutes later the jury returned a verdict of not guilty, and the construction worker returned home to his wife and 11 children. Prosecutor Springs had turned down a Vang offer to plead guilty to simple possession, instead offering to send him to prison for only nine years if he copped a plea to the trafficking charge. Now, Springs ends up with nothing, and he still doesn't get it. "The victim here is the community," Springs said. "They felt sorrier for the defendant than they did for the community. He admitted he had the drugs," Springs said. "The law says you can't possess the drugs." "This is a victory for common sense and what's just," said Vang's attorney, Chris Wellborn. "I don't see that it benefits the people of South Carolina or this community to put an addict in jail for 25 years." Neither, apparently, did the jury, despite Springs' fulminations. And here is an example of a jury doing the RIGHT thing instead of sending a smoker to jail for decades based on evidence not present. If we had more juries like these (much like we had during alcohol prohibition), the drug war would simply fall apart since it is not justified. During alcohol prohibition, literally hundreds of juries used a concept known as "jury nullification" to express their diaffection with prohibition as a policy. We would be well served to consider this as a response to the new prohibition, which is just as useless and FAR more expensive than alcohol prohibition was.
You're probably right. However, when I start these threads, I do it with the assumption that we are debating the efficacy of the drug war in general. I suppose I should have stated that. I still don't think that what happened in this case was justified based on the evidence present and further believe that the "do the crime, do the time" mantra is WAY overused, particularly since the "crime" does not in any way justify the time that must be served. Very well said. I would agree with you if there was anything even close to equal application of the drug laws. African-Americans make up 13% of drug users and yet comprise 55% of the population jailed for drug "offenses." In this case specifically, every single one of the "offenders" was black and there is no way that you can convince me that every single crack user, much less dealer, in Palestine is black. If that isn't skewed enforcement, then I don't know what is. Jail time has not been shown to affect drug use in the least. Since we have begun jailing users, drug use rates have climbed, drug purity has increased, and prices have dropped. This seems to indicate that jail time doesn't affect usage rates in the least. Other evidence comes from Holland, where they don't jail drug users AT ALL (only dealers) and have rates of use of drugs other than mar1juana very comparable to our rates of use in the US (adult use of mar1juana is comparable, but use of mar1juana by teens is about half of what we see here). The people busted in this action were not trying to get the law changed, they were feeding their addiction, a disease that it is possible to recover from if one works at it and has support. Jailing users increases their criminality, increases the chances that they will use drugs, and reduces the chances to recover from said disease. Personally, I don't disregard the laws, I am working to get the laws changed because I believe it is right. If this was about my ability to use drugs, I would have taken a job in Amsterdam when it was offered or I would have moved to Alaska when their Supreme Court struck down their mar1juana laws. Nobody deserves to be jailed for drug "offenses." The big difference is that the people in charge won't even allow such a debate to take place. It cannot be brought up as a topic of conversation and the officials in charge actively avoid any forum where their assertions can be challenged. They do this because in a fair, reasoned debate, they lose and they know it. I agree that it was a mistake to shut rvolkin down like that. I apologize for my gaffe.
I agree. This instance was taken out of hand, but I still think that criminals should face punishment for their crimes. The thing that needs to happen, however, is for our legal system to distinguish between users and addicts, but more on that later. I absolutely agree that the enforcement is distorted so that minorities are targeted, but let's be real here- that's going to happen no matter what. There is a widespread and deeply rooted racism present in America, and it is fairly inevitable that blacks and hispanics will be viewed with more suspicion in any criminal matter. This racism, however, does not mean that we should abandon punishment of criminals. We just need to enact reforms in the criminal system itself and provide some sort of outlet for reviewing the prosecutions and decisions of the court. I think you can explain the increase in drug users as a product of a general increase in population, combined with the fact that if you start cracking down on drug users, you don't increase the number that there are, just the number that you are aware of. The threat of jail time could very well be a deterrent, although I will agree that it is small enough of a deterrent to not matter. Still, I think it should be acknowledged that a portion of the population, no matter how small, is turned away from drugs due to the threat of being jailed or at least prosecuted (although I think we can agree that the two are often the same). And we both agree that this should be the norm here in America. Legalize the drugs and only bother jailing the people who sell them or distribute them to minors. I understand that, in this particular instance, we're dealing with addicts as opposed to users, and I agree with your policies. They are parallel to my own policies. However, until America is ready to legalize drug use (a HUGE social reform), we need to adopt a slightly smaller reform: We need to be willing to make the distinction between a casual user and an addict. We need to treat the addicts and punish the users (although we should see a reduction in jail time and percentage of convictions). I agree with all of this. However, I'm not sure that the situation is as hopeless as you make it out to be. One of the nice things about this country is our freedom to assemble and stage peaceful protests. I think under continual pressure from the right people, the government would not be able to ignore the arguments in favor of drug legalization anymore. Which is essentially what you're doing. The problem is getting more of the right people to do the same.