The De-Yaoing of Yao...A Skills Development Discussion

Couldn't agree with you more. JVG is a great defensive coach and full of grit but I don't think the guy has ever been able to effectively and consistently coach offense.

 

longtimefan has it right- this is on Yao
he is doing a poor job of sealing off his man in the post.

hopefully he will get it together, he did last season.

he is pretty good when he is deep in the post, his face up jumper is money, his hook shot is horrible.

he has trouble getting stripped of the ball both on rebounds and possessions.

none of these problems are overlooked or caused by the coach.

Ewing was never good at sealing off the post either, he was a pretty good face up shooter. I don't think Ewing is good for Yao.

 

WHat Jordan were you watching? As I recall, Jordan was unstoppable down low. Which is why the fade-away is so famous these days. But then again, Jordan is unstopppable everywhere on the floor.

But, yeah i agree JVG should use Yao in the high post more often. Yao has a great shooting touch, I think hes more than capable making 15-17 shots.

 

I agree with the notion that Ewing might not be the best teacher for Ming. Sports is about adjustments; the league has adjusted to Ming, counter-adjustments have to be made. We are waiting.

 

Ewing hasn't helped Yao very much--or at least hasn't taught him that "signature" four-step move. Because he's 7'6, getting pushed out of the low post wouldn't hurt Yao--he could start the Ewing move from the three-point line.

Aside from that lingering bitterness toward Ewing, I think that they do/did have a different skill set. However, Ewing can hopefully help Yao think with more of a dominating personality. Just without the choking. Crap, I hate Ewing. Let's get Hakeem to do this.

 

Part of Yao is a learning curve-

He adjusted last season pretty well to becoming more aggressive and this season he understands the need for stamina-

The next step is to develop two areas with consistancy-

1. Keep the defender sealed off and push into the post.
2. When fronted push his man further out towards the passer or set the high pick (or clear out if TMac is the passer)
3. Keep the ball high and take the drop step to the basket.

Right now Yao is getting pushed out of the low post. And when he gets aggressive he has picked up some fouls.

What would help him alot is to quick worrying about the fouls and keep using the power the same way Shaq does. He is much stronger on the base than most of the centers who guard him.

He is going to have to go hard to the hoop... if the refs want to shut him down with a bunch of offensive fouls, then I think the league will have something to say about it.

If Yao would keep going hard at the defender the refs would start to give him so room. They will give some offensive fouls, but they are not going to foul him out every game for low post contact. Yao's fouls have been close calls. He needs to get that drop step go hard to the basket move.

I have seen him use it, it has been allowed and they have called the charge. It has gone both ways.

But the more he uses it, the more they will let him play physical.

He must use his off arm to seal his defender, he is not quick enough to get the entry pass off of quickness.

I think Yao can be the force we envisioned if he will continue to develop in the post.

Van Gundy is smart to keep working on this part of the offense.

 

Am I the only one who is seeing a stronger and much better Yao now? Yao will finish the season in double digits in the rebounds per game column. His stamina has improved. He has gotten better in the low post. In his last two pre-season games I did not see these things in him.

1. Yao is a very good offensive rebounder. What good will it do him if he stays high? Who will go for the OR? Motay? Juwan?

2. Only Shaq and maybe big Z can stop or slow Yao down in the post. How many 7 footers are there in the league now and many of them can guard Yao? He continues to get his shots easily in the post and soon the will falling regularly. Why attempt to make a potential post dorminator a mere jump shooter?

3. If you were going to make Yao remain a jump shooter or at least predominant, why bring in Tmac? Steve Francis and Mobley would have surficed.

4. Dallas tried the "Euro center" style for years and they saw it did not work. Now they have settle for 3rd-tier low post threat for a good reason. Go figure.

5. Just like Hakeem, Chucky and Rudy will tell you this game is one of inside-out. That is the best and most fundamental way of winning. There is nothing wrong trying to teach and develop your big man into a low post threat. Even Hakeem was initially a "Euro-like center" with more athletism and versatility when came in. His low move got refined and developed over time and it led to 2 championships.

6. Defense and half court game rule in the post-season. Unless your name is Jordan, the only half court game that really matters is in the lwo post. Check history for yourself if you do not believe me.


In all, JVG is on the right track. He realised that Yao is the top priority if we want to win a champioship. So he assigned Fason to make sure Yao develops the strength and conditioning necessary to carry the load especially in the low post. Yao has the skills and now comes the toughness both mentally and physically. The fickleness I have seen on this GARM has been saddening. The least we could do is wait for maybe 7-10 games to start crying in despair or jumping for joy. This team is not built to shine like the Suns, Denver or Dallas during the regular season, CD, Les and JVG built this team (and still building) with a view to the post season and beyond.

 

Very nice post, Fegwu...Yao is indeed stronger and better in terms of stamina. As I watched the firs 2 games, I could not help but think that once his shot starts dropping, and the offense gels enough to get him the ball, he will start dominating.

 

Yeah, I've mentioned this before. It's like they are trying to turn him into a Chinese version of Patrick Ewing and that's just not his game. He's looked very frustrated and lost these past 2 games.

 

Good post. What's happening though is that opposing teams are not denying him position in the low post but are fronting him in order to deny him from getting the ball where he wants to receive it. This is basically what Detroit did last year to Shaq and this year to Yao. Toronto picked up on it and continued this strategy. You can expect Memphis to do the same tonight.

Why? Because it enables the opposing team to compensate for the physical mismatch at the 5 with Yao. They are then able to make him work really hard to get the ball. In the Toronto game for example, Yao looked gassed in the 1st period from fighting this defense and from that point on, he was clearly not a happy camper. Now add the fact that the PF spot for the Rockets is subpar and it's easy to see how opposing teams can concentrate on Yao and basically ignore the rest of the front line and face no consequences.

Letting he turn and face the basket and hit that short jumper screws up the fronting defense plus it clears out the low post giving T-Mac a bit more room to operate. It used to be a part of his arsenal and I thought that made him extra dangerous. Now, he's being turned into a one dimensional post up player and he's far more than that.

 

I posted this in the other thread, meant to post it here.

It appears to me that the problem with Yao is not that he's not aggressive, but it's that he doesn't have the upper body strength and the quickness to be aggressive. He fights hard for position but flails around when guys push back. And it takes him forever to gather himself to go up for a dunk, and then often times he gets stripped or doesn't have the strength to go up against the defender's body.
And then there's the problem with the zone. Watching Shaq the past few years, trust me, it's futile to throw him the ball when there are two or three guys around him. Throwing him the ball against two or three defenders is like throwing into double-coverage in football, it just doesn't work. The ability for the defense to drop back and the defensive 3-second violation allow the defenders to masterfully prevent him from ever getting a good passing lane in great position. No coincidence the Lakers lost the past two years when teams started to zone him regularly. As for Yao, you can tell that he's trying hard, it's just not his fault that the rules are preventing him from becoming a major impact player.
I think you should be more concerned with T-Mac. He has the ability to take his man off the dribble almost every time he wants to, yet settles for fadeaways. 7 free throws per game career average, while usually being the lone star(hence more opportunity to score) should attest to that.

 

I disagree that Yao cannot be effective in the low post. As a Lakers fan, I saw him scoring and dunking at will when Brian Cook and Samaki Walker tried to guard him one-on-one(Phil is very stubborn about zoning), very similar to how Shaq abused his opponents in the pre-zone era. Yao is not as strong, but with his skills he doesn't have to be at point-blank for a sure basket. Yes I know that Cook and Walker aren't exactly the greatest defenders, but given more room, he can probably work his way in against the stronger defenders for the hook shot. But that's the problem, why should teams give him more room when they can zone him?
I'm not sure if JVG has tried it, but one way Phil countered the swarming was passing around the perimeter while Shaq moved accross the paint until he has a clear passing lane. He also used Horry because of his three-range but the problem is the Rockets have no PF with that kind of range(perhaps this is why JVG wanted Taylor to work on his three-point shot).

 

T-Mac should be the entry passer when Yao's fronted to utilize his slashing ability. Make the fronting pay.

 

I really think we just have some chemistry problems that will be solved in a few games. if we are at all-star break and talking about this still, then we have a problem we need to address.

 

well said

 

I am totally against Yao low post, and I don't think much of you low post people. Don't you realize that Tmac should be slashing there?
Whoever we run at the 4 spot, they need to clear out sometimes and let Tmac be Tmac. He's a frickin' stud.

Yao is a stud in the high post. You are still trying to hammer that round peg into a square hole. Forget your prejudice, play the hand you have.

If you really want to cheer a low post team - go cheer for the Spurs. Yao is not Duncan. He's Yao. And we have Tmac. Use what Yao's got - stop trying to change him.