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[NYT] Despite Trump’s Tough Talk, Flag Burning Is Protected Speech

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 26, 2025.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    I think with only four years on a "second time around" term, he is wielding a sledge hammer to accomplish certain aims in a very short period of time--and he's not afraid of pissing people off to do that.

    Speaking from my own very limited but direct contact with some of what he's doing in education, he is arguably working on a long-overdue course correction that, while clumsily implemented, has a very high likelihood of achieving real results that will survive into the long term. Again, there is collateral damage with such an approach . . . but he is exercising a type of authority that at least a large portion of the American public seems to desire. And a large percentage of that public seems to have a philosophical attitude of "you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette" in tolerating the mess that he's making in so many areas.

    How will history judge him? that to me is the fascinating question. During the Reagan years folks were convinced Reagan was the worst president ever. History has been much kinder to Reagan.

    In education, some of the reforms he is attempting are in response to academic practices that have been *clearly* illegal since 1964. The problem has been that the federal government itself has sent contradictory messages to academic institutions, e.g., with federal affirmative action programs. The result over the past 50-60 years has been confusion on the part of anyone having anything to do with academic hiring, academic admissions, academic research, etc. The current atmosphere is one where administrators are finally taking a good, long, hard look at their own practices--something they have not done at all (as far as I can tell) for the past 50-60 years.

    While it's not fun right now to be an administrator in academia, I think there is a better than 50/50 chance that history will judge the academic reform part of the Trump 2.0 Administration pretty favorably. But again, it's definitely an uncomfortable and stressful time to be in academic administration right now.
     
    #21 Os Trigonum, Aug 26, 2025
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2025
    Nook likes this.
  2. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    This was a false flag operation conducted by the Democrats and YOU KNOW IT.
     
    jo mama likes this.
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Trump, very smartly, is once again luring Democrats into his trap. Since Democrats' brains work like a knee being tapped by a doctor to determine the patellar reflex, they will immediately leap to the other side of the issue... which puts them in favor of burning flags. Or in favor of violence in inner cities. Or in favor of mortgage fraudsters determining interest rate policy. Or in favor of keeping an illegal alien human trafficker in the country. Trump is playing chess while Democrats are playing Chutes & Ladders (not yet ready for checkers).


    GOOD DAY
     
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  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you may have your detractors, but you are always entertaining.

    respect kid.gif
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    This highlights a blind spot.

    Fascists don't announce they're "cancelling" the Constitution (though this one did literally say terminate the Constitution). They work within it while hollowing it out.

    The EO doesn't need to violate the Constitution on paper if it achieves the same result through prosecutorial intimidation and dubious legal theories.

    p.s. Hitler worked within the law.
     
    durvasa and astros123 like this.
  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Who gives a fuq about burning a flag? The sixties called, they want their protest back
     
    astros123 and Nook like this.
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Exactly. I immediately was brought back to watching TV back in the late 80's with my parents where they were all worked up about some guy in Tucson that burned a flag in protest of something or another, and it made the nightly news. Life was much simpler then I guess.

    Whats even dumber is watching Trump supporters cake their pants with joy thinking that Trump is this master genius who once again baited the Libs.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/08/26/flag-burn-trump-order-protest/

    Man burns U.S. flag near White House to protest Trump order
    Secret Service detains man in Lafayette Square claiming to be Army combat veteran.

    August 26, 2025 at 3:01 a.m. EDT
    Today at 3:01 a.m. EDT

    By Martin Weil
    A man set fire to a U.S. flag across the street from the White House Monday evening to protest President Donald Trump’s anti-flag-burning executive order.

    The man was arrested in Lafayette Square, but not on grounds of violating the order — or of burning the flag. Instead he was charged with violating a law against setting fires at federal parks.

    Video posted on social media shows the man in the park saying that he would ignite the flag to protest Trump’s order issued earlier Monday. The man called the order illegal.

    The Supreme Court has ruled that burning the flag is a mode of symbolic speech protected under the First Amendment. Trump’s order appeared to acknowledge the court’s decision, but to aim at instances of flag burning where he indicated that the court’s ruling might not apply, such as when they result in incitement to “imminent lawless action.”

    In the video, the man who burned the flag described himself as a retired Army combat veteran. “I fought for every one of your rights,” he told perhaps two dozen people gathered near him in the park.

    The man said no president had the right to make an order infringing on the First Amendment.

    “We burn this flag in protest,” he said.

    After the man ignited the flag, the video showed a law enforcement officer quelling the blaze with a fire extinguisher.

    In the video, the man was taken into custody by officers who appeared to be from the U.S. Secret Service.

    The Secret Service said it “detained an individual in Lafayette Park for igniting an object.” It said the person detained was then turned over to the U.S. Park Police which has jurisdiction in the park.

    The Park Police said it made an arrest in connection with a fire that was prohibited under a section of the code of federal regulations that deals with fires in, on or at parks, forests or federal property.

    Neither agency reported specifically that the fire involved a flag and they did not identify the man by name.


     
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  9. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    It only takes a handful of idiots to take the bait, and it will be amplified by the media to his benefit.
     
  10. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    The party that flies the confederate flag is concerned about the American flag? The party that was flying Trump flags during Jan 6th as they tried to overturn a democratic election is concerned about the American flag? The party that’s always talking about free speech is celebrating an attempt to violate it?

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. JoeBarelyCares

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  12. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Considering what you do (or did?) for a living, I find your post very disturbing.
     
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  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Trump derangement trying to stir up Trump derangement syndrome and yet the OP wonders why some people have TDS when this is actually very typical of Trump
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Yes there are people who desire a fantasy where the world is about to end because someone burned a flag and next is my house with my kids in it.

    The fact is these people like the people in my family will be outraged and scared regardless because of whatever they see on fox or whatever they read online. There’s not a damn thing you or I or the media or democrats could ever do to bring these people back to Earth 1.

    Trump is not a genius for ginning up people who are going to be ginned up about anything that fits their fantastical dystopian worldview. These folks were always going to vote for him and he’s just doing what fox was going to do for them anyways.

    The flag burning thing isn’t going to move a single voter. If you are voting for Trump because of this you are liar and just trying to gaslight people. Let’s stop giving Trump credit for doing the easiest possible thing. Preach to the choir.
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    One could avoid being seen as a pedophile predator by not pal-ing around with a pedophile predator or
    offering comfort and leniency to pedophile predator co-conspirator

    Rocket River
     
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  17. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    This is insane.
     
  18. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    This post is sponsored by:

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    @Os Trigonum

    I missed that. Reagan was one of the most popular presidents ever. He actually has been criticized more since leaving office
     
  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Ronald Reagan From the People’s Perspective: A Gallup Poll Review
    Reagan’s image improved substantially in the years after he left office

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/11887/Ronald-Reagan-From-Peoples-Perspective-Gallup-Poll-Review.aspx

    historians' rankings 2000-2021:

    https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

    see also:

    Epilogue Ronald Reagan and the Historians

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230616196_15

    abstract:

    Abstract
    For many years academic historians, many of them liberal Democrats, gave Ronald Reagan a bad press. In a survey of historians taken between 1988 and 1990 some 62 percent rated him as either below average as a president or even a failure.1 Representative of this assessment was the history published by Michael Schaller in 1992, which argued that Reagan’s appeal was “based on his easy charm, not his talent or accomplishment.”2 While Schaller admired Reagan’s communication skills, he described a president who was barely in charge of his administration, he emphasized the scandals associated with it, and questioned whether Reagan deserved much credit for ending the Cold War. Reagan emerged as sort of sincere Wizard of Oz, an illusionist who believed in his illusions: “Reagan succeeded, as few actors or politicians have, in persuading Americans to suspend their disbelief. It was an era when saying something made it so, when, as in a daydream, anything seemed possible.”3 Leading journalists too offered less than admiring analyses. In what remains the best biography of Reagan, Lou Cannon presented him as a man with considerable gifts but also serious limitations, a supremely self-confident president who was able to set a direction for his administration but whose lack of curiosity and his failure to analyze issues in depth meant that he was somewhat at the mercy of his staff.4 Haynes Johnson offered a president who failed to address the real problems of the country, one who was “sleepwalking through history.”5
     
    #40 Os Trigonum, Aug 27, 2025 at 12:10 PM
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2025 at 12:26 PM

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