1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Education Department is a big con job

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Mar 4, 2025.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,162
    Likes Received:
    23,450
    Trump blasts Department of Education as ‘con job,’ says he wants it closed 'immediately' | Fox News
    "Oh, I’d like it to be closed immediately. Look at the Department of Education. It’s a big con job," he answered. "They ranked the top countries in the world. We’re ranked No. 40, but we’re ranked No. 1 in one department: cost per pupil. So, we spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, but we’re ranked No. 40."


    McMahon named Education Secretary amid future concerns

    Linda McMahon will be the next secretary of the Department of Education after passing a full Senate vote for her confirmation on Monday.

    McMahon — a former World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) executive who served as head of the Small Business Administration in Trump’s first term — did draw Democratic opposition over her general lack of education experience


    'We're not prepared': States brace for Trump's plans to dismantle the Education Department

    NBC News reported this month that the White House is preparing an executive order to eliminate the agency, though the details of how that would work remain unclear. Trump cannot unilaterally get rid of a federal agency without congressional approval, and his nominee for education secretary, Linda McMahon, agreed at her recent Senate confirmation hearing that they hope to present a plan that Congress will support.

    Conservatives have for decades circulated an array of ideas on how to abolish or diminish the Cabinet-level agency — plans that include transferring key responsibilities within the department to other federal offices, as well as moving funds and oversight to the states.

    Yet, in the absence of specifics, the White House’s broader plan has been met with confusion and big questions from state lawmakers and education officials from both parties who would be tasked with filling in the gaps most likely to arise if and when the department is ended or curtailed.

    While some state lawmakers are quietly attempting to develop modest contingency plans, most say they have no choice but to wait for the details to emerge and then scramble to make sure their states can absorb whatever additional responsibilities come their way.

    “There’s no solid [federal] plan, so we don’t even know what to plan for,” said Connecticut state Rep. Maryam Khan, a Democrat and a former teacher and local board of education member. “If there’s just an implementation of something, all of a sudden, there’s no way any state can plan that quickly. There would be huge burdens on states to try to figure out something within a very small time frame.”

     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,162
    Likes Received:
    23,450
    To solve the problem, you must first understand it. This is a golden rule.

    The problem: public schools have not been teaching kids reading, writing, and math.


    https://www.ed.gov/about/news/press-release/us-department-of-education-launches-end-dei-portal

    “For years, parents have been begging schools to focus on teaching their kids practical skills like reading, writing, and math, instead of pushing critical theory, rogue sex education and divisive ideologies—but their concerns have been brushed off, mocked, or shut down entirely,” said Tiffany Justice, Co-Founder of Moms for Liberty. “Parents, now is the time that you share the receipts of the betrayal that has happened in our public schools. This webpage demonstrates that President Trump’s Department of Education is putting power back in the hands of parents.”
     
    Astrodome and FranchiseBlade like this.
  3. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,162
    Likes Received:
    23,450
    To solve the problem, you must first understand it. This is a golden rule.

    The problem: We’re ranked No. 40, but we’re ranked No. 1 in one department: cost per pupil.


    https://www.factcheck.org/2025/02/trump-wrong-about-u-s-rank-in-education-spending-and-outcomes/

    the U.S. scored above average among OECD countries in reading and science (subjects in which the U.S. ranked 6th and 12th, respectively). The average U.S. score in math was lower, but not significantly, than the OECD average. The U.S. ranking in math was 28th.


    total spending per pupil: at the primary level — elementary school — the U.S. ranked 6th behind Luxembourg ($25,584), Norway ($18,037), Iceland ($16,786), Denmark ($15,598) and Austria ($15,415). According to the OECD, 93% of total expenditure on primary institutions comes from public sources in the U.S.


    Looking at secondary education — high school — the U.S. ranked 8th behind Norway ($19,831), Austria ($19,049), South Korea ($19,299), the Netherlands ($17,909), Belgium ($17,525), Germany ($17,077) and Australia ($16,498).
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81,604
    Likes Received:
    122,017
  5. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,598
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    I've been in education for a few years

    Both public and independent schools

    I've never seen a critical race theory class

    I've seen plenty of focus on math , reading , and writing

    I think the biggest boogeyman is technology in the classroom. Cell phones are a huge distraction and so much push is to have kids do work on computers.

    Granted , I am in high school.

    I have no idea what's going on in lower levels

    You need to pay teachers more to attract top talent , and there needs to be an appropriate level of focus on testing . Look at how Massachusetts is leading the way in the US and look at how they pay teachers . It's not rocket science.


    Teaching is a tough job.

    Home life and what the parents do is one of the biggest factors and is completely out of our control.

    Final point . I understand the idea that states should have freedom and that the federal government may not be able to take a blanket approach because each situation may be different, but in particular... Texas' state govt is horrible with what they are doing to education

    Their takeover of HISD forced out many experienced , quality educators .

    Stop giving every kid a laptop

    Take away phones , go back to pen and paper and make kids write **** down.

    I think pushing towards charter and private and independent education is not a horrible idea , but it has to be done carefully. Nothing that this admin (Trump) has done seems careful
     
    ROXTXIA, Rashmon, ROCKSS and 4 others like this.
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,357
    Likes Received:
    33,071
    You live with the assumption that they want kids to be better educated
    They don't
    They want them to be better at obedience

    Rocket River
     
    Rashmon, ROCKSS, FrontRunner and 3 others like this.
  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,162
    Likes Received:
    23,450
    Ideology-based policy, not evidence-based policy, will lead to the golden age. History is full of examples.
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  8. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,471
    Likes Received:
    43
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,138
    Likes Received:
    133,711
    Thank you - I know it is a difficult job.

    Right, but it is an effective red herring.

    As there should be.

    Why not? A lot of the work that they do outside of the classroom as adults will be on the computer.

    They don't want to attract top talent - you are supposed to grovel as an employee of the people. You are supposed to show up and baby sit kids for 8 hours and do it because you are a selfless person with no personal interests or ambitions. Teaching lobotomies are coming to a district near you.

    Yes- and not respected like it should be.

    WHAT? You mean personal responsibility? Not in 2025.

    Half the states do not want their populations to be well educated - it disrupts the social order.

    That was the point, they don't want teachers that will stand up for children.

    Why?

    Okay, but that isn't how the business world operates anymore.

    I don't trust them.
     
  10. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,598
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    Let me rephrase a little bit on the laptops

    It's not that I don't think technology is valuable and yes , used in adult life after school .

    However , students that graduated in the 90's , 00's and early 10's ... They haven't struggled to adapt to use technology in their professional lives

    I was judging more on a cost /benefit standpoint.

    We spend a lot of education relative to the results we get . A lot of that spending is getting sucked up by the technology sector . Whether it's learning management systems or buying the laptops themselves . I think the money could be better spent elsewhere... Teacher salaries , hell given to the students for making A's , extracurriculars , etc
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,357
    Likes Received:
    33,071
    Honestly we have not taken education seriously for some time imo
    We focus more on the "grade" than the learning
    A high grade point average is more important than the learning
    Practical knowledge flew the coup and we have theoretical knowledge at best. . . grades based on cheating at worse

    Rocket River
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,622
    Likes Received:
    14,360


    "How am I supposed to learn anything without a teacher?"
    "I'm still here Vanessa"
    "Ah goddammit"
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,822
    Likes Received:
    3,713
    Saw a good story on more hisd kids choosing more classes on trades which won't close the education gap because will give more kids good earning skills
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,357
    Likes Received:
    33,071
    For a while people forgot we were in a capitalistic society
    They thought we were living in Star Trek world
    They forgot that your education is ONLY ABOUT EARNING AND PROFITABILITY
    We have to reteach that you are ONLY EDUCATED TO EARN A LIVING . .EARN FOR A COMPANY . .. BE USEFUL
    The Profit Motive drives EVER DECISION IN *THIS* COUNTRY
    unfortunately it's only for short term profits

    Rocket River
     
  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,242
    Likes Received:
    8,619
    A few thoughts -
    Paying poor performing education staff more money will not fix the problem and the education system certainly will not improve by continuing to offer low salary wages. It feels like the education leadership has become too political. I dont know how to fix that.

    COVID completely devastated the education system

    Its time to move on from the past and embrace technology. Teachers need to learn how to use LLM's as a teaching aid. The education system needs to learn how to teach children how to use the LLM's as a teaching aid. Technology is moving too fast to wait a decade. Parents who embrace it will have better results than the parents who leave the entire process up to the education system.
     
  16. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,939
    Likes Received:
    8,033
    how about starting w the parents / guardians of the students

     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81,604
    Likes Received:
    122,017
    it's probably also time to rethink No Child Left Behind and teaching to the test. I'm not sure technology can help with that. If you want students to read well, learn well, and develop a feel for the English language (so they can write and communicate well later in life), it would be best to have students cultivate the habit of reading early in grade school and continue that cultivation through middle school and high school
     
  18. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,932
    Likes Received:
    13,075
    PREACH.

    I remember talking about a lot of this years ago.
    Computers in the class? I had a language class in college in my last semester that used a lot of computer, posting on-line. Total garbage class. We learned nothing. You waste time posting comments or answers rather than engaging in the class.

    You do have to get pen/pencil to paper. There is something that activates the brain when you're writing things down in this fashion. Education on a drive-through is not cutting it.

    The critical race theory class is also bulls***. Maybe some state somewhere offered this once (MAYBE) and the right seized upon it and naturally it spread like a Mister Smith virus.
     
  19. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,598
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    Agreed tech is moving fast, I think its worth considering IF and how we should incorporate these tools vs blindly going with the flow.

    Here's some research you may be interested in , I can link the full pdf paper if you're interested.

    https://time.com/7295195/ai-chatgpt-google-learning-school/
     

Share This Page