that would require a GM who isn't the safest GM in NBA history. we have nothing to lose by letting FVV walk and let Reed take over. Worst case scenario, you lose a year.
Seems odd, Stone behaves like someone whose job is taken away. He has his job security locked a while ago......
I have no problem picking up Fred's option if it doesn't block the Rockets from extending Jabari and/or Tari at reasonable contracts. Where I would have a BIG problem is if bringing Fred back continued to block Amen's opportunities to play the point. I also wouldn't want him to cut into Reed's minutes (assuming Reed is ready to be a serious rotation player). If both guys develop enough, Rockets could trade Fred at the deadline and everyone would be happy.
No offense - we normally agree on things, but I feel like you took some pretty big leaps with reality there to suit a narrative in your head. OKC made bold moves last offseason? They traded a guy they knew they couldn't afford to keep(Giddy) for a guy they can afford(Caruso) and got Hartenstein on a relatively short term team friendly deal. No doubt the Hartenstein deal was a great win for them but there wasn't anything bold there - they were just the best team with $28mil in their pocket so they had their pick of FA in that price range. Same with Golden State - they were in danger of missing the playoffs altogether with limited assets to trade and only scored Jimmy because he had completely destroyed his own value and made it known he would sit out if he got traded to teams he didn't like and they were the only team desperate enough to gamble on him who he would be willing to suit up for. Bold implies you risked something - GS was a lotto team with nothing to lose before trading for Butler. I also think it's interesting you said "I don’t know how anybody can watch the finals this year and think we can compete offensively with just the organic growth of our young players." when that IS how those teams were built. Both teams mostly rely on young players that have grown into stars on their team. Haliburton, SGA, Jaylen Williams, Nesmith, Nembhard, Holmgren, Dort ALL became the valuable players they are today through organic growth on their current rosters. Caruso and Hartenstein aren't why OKC is here....Siakem is obviously really good but I would argue they aren't here because of him as their star, but rather because he is one of several solid players on the team who all play hard.
I understand why he would re-sign FVV. Take away the price tag, we're a better team with Fred than without, especially with Reed being a question mark. However, it's such a cowardly way of doing business. You KNOW Fred isn't the future. Fred isn't a Rockets lifer. Why are we treating him as such? If the rumors are true that Fred is going to re-sign for 3 years on a 90-100M contract, say bye bye to Reed ever being anything. You're just enabling Ime to play Fred 40 mins a game.
I cannot believe the Rockets would offer Fred 3/$90M after not only his big drop in efficiency, but virtually every productivity metric. Plus, no other team in the NBA would pay him anything close to that.
No other team was willing to pay Brooks 20M a year either, let alone give him 4 years no team option. At least that was understandable, we had to pay the lottery team tax. The only team that I can see bidding for Fred is Orlando, maybe Charlotte to get a vet. Does Stone strike you as someone who is going to play hardball at the negotiation table? I can see Stone trying to and then giving in after the first counter offer.
This isn't just about market value. I get why you compare them, but the DB contract and the proposed contract for Fred aren't really similar. DB was 27 when the Rockets signed him. Fred is 31 and going downhill, probably fast. DB's contract is now a bargain and is very tradable. That ain't gonna happen with Fred until maybe the final year. Also, Rockets have other players to sign now that 3/$90M would interfere with. I questioned the DB signing but understood it. I'll riot if they commit 3/90 to short, slow, over-the-hill Fred. To clarify: I like Fred a lot. This discussion is purely about his basketball value to the Rockets.
If Tate ($7.5m this past and final season) doesn't come back a spot opens up. Few cheaper and lower risk targets, if org is feeling frisky to round up the roster, after they do their priority stuff first. 1. Guerschon Yabusele (6'8" PF/C - 76sers). Contract: this past season was $2mil. Unrestricted Free Agent this upcoming season. Played in Europe for most of his career. Age is 29, so he's not here for upside, more for bench depth. Played enough good games towards the end of 76ers season, that he has earned a pay bump ($4-6m maybe?...). Supposedly took a pay cut, to come to the NBA and bet on himself. 76sers salary cap is very tight; plus if they keep their 3rd pick this year, that's +$10m more on their books. Unlikely to give Yabusele the raise he's seeking. 2. Josh Christopher (6'5" G - Heat). Has 4 year of service now. Josh's 3rd year was not in NBA, but MEM still paid him, so it counted towrads his four years of service. With the last 4th year as a two-way on the Miami Heat. Josh can't be a two-way again, has to be a regular contract. By the looks of things, Miami is likely to cut Josh. If Rockets has ~$2 mil left over somewhere (say after Tate leaves ), Josh can fill a bench spot. Stone can give him the Hinkie special with non-guarantees.
I appreciate being able to have an honest debate with someone on this forum, without all the name calling. I think the word “bold” might have been a bit hyperbolic. My real point is OKC won the first seed and then made significant moves to get even better. Both OKC and Indiana got their No. 1 player via trade. You can do both, grow organically with some of your young players and trade to become better. I’ve said several times, I’m not willing to make a trade for a superstar if it “guts” our team, but I would take a gamble when the price is right. It’s an unpopular opinion, but I think moving FVV regardless of the return, would do more to improve our offense than bringing in an overpriced superstar. If you can do both, great! FVV, Landale, #10, and filler for Durant. That’s honestly about as good a deal I think Stone should give the Suns. I would also make trades or sign players to bring a better balance to our team. Guys like Collins, Garland, Sexton, etc. can be had with several middie type trades.
Both OKC and Indy made a Harden type of trade.....when they traded for that player, that player was already good but not great...... Already decent or at least a 10 plus ppg scorer. Harden was better but he was a couple years older when OKC traded him here. The Rockets are more or less in the sitting ducks situation ... a tad like the Pierce era Celtics when they had to go and trade for KG and Ray Ray but much younger.
3/75 or 4/90 is fine. I just think Fred may be a little bit more CP3 than people think (not in a good way). Like a little politician within the team. I kinda want one of the young guys to take the reigns as leader and FVV existence will prevent that from happening.
The problem with Rockets Fans is that we don't want to go through the growing pains and struggle Let Reed Struggle for a year. . . .get battle tested Still interested in Lofton Jr. Rocket River
Fred is a positive. Fred being re-signed at the $s bantered are by banterers. No one I’ve heard substantiates that degree of largess. I am a big-time Amen fan. Amen is not a PG IMO. If that will ever eventuate or nay is in the future. Is Reed ready? I doubt it. Trade Freddie and Bari? I’m behind it. Having FVV in a shortish term, tradable contract? I’m def behind it.
FVV has been a low-usage player since mid-December, other than FVV putting the team on his shoulders for a couple of playoff games. The reigns to be an offensive leader were given to Green and Sengun with Amen getting more reps as well. As far as a defensive leader, I kind of like Brooks and FVV helping the young guys get into spots. If you are concerned with someone being prevented from becoming a leader, you need to focus on Green and Sengun. Regarding basketball value on the court, FVV on a $20M AVV or a $30M AVV likely doesn't matter much as the Rockets would have the same guys on the court. Likely doesn't matter next season either. I think as long as it is declining such that third year mirrors his value or has a third-year option, FVV's contract is unlikely to impact who is in the rotation. I think $35M AAV is when FVV impacts the ability to add other players.(other than using the NT-MLE on a worse PG and letting FVV walk).
What do you mean by low usage? He's been constantly above 35 minutes even after December. I like what FVV brings defensively, especially as PoA against smaller guards and can hold is own against guys much larger than him. That's where his impact really is. I'm not focusing on Green at all. I'm past worrying about him other than what he brings back in a trade. Sengun isn't the leader type. Amen is a lead by example type but I don't think is a leader type either. Jabari probably has this personality the most amongst the young guys. Leaders aren't always your best players. FWIW it doesn't really matter as it seems FVV will be back here again next year in some capacity and well into the end of his career. He isn't polarizing like CP3 or Harden. I would prefer him to play less than 30 minutes a game next year and for Reed's minutes to be a tick below his. If Durant does come here, a starting unit of FVV/Durant/Amen/Jabari/Sengun is incredibly potent on paper. I'd be surprised if it didn't work on the court as well.
Low usage as in he let's others handle the critical part of plays. He may be in a lot and doing the initial action, but he's not trying to create the final advantage for an assist or a FGA. He's playing like a supporting player, not a leader. His mpg is more a reflection on others not being able to handle the PG role during a playoff push. There were multiple times Ime tried to finish the game with another PG, but had to put FVV back in to save a blowout. I think Reed will be good enough this year to handle the backup point guard spot, and FVV's role is just to fill the gap until Reed becomes the starting point guard. FVV's minutes will go down as the Rockets can get better PG play in non-FVV minutes. If the young players have a leap in talent like they did last year, keeping FVV, even if he loses his starting job, will help the Rockets win games.
Rockets don't have early Bird Rights to Jerome so they might not be able to pay him half the amount. On trading, Rockets likely wouldn't have enough room under the 1st apron to use the NT-MLE on Jerome if they add Durant.
