My problem is the young guys have a long window and the old guy doesnt. Like Jabari and Tari dont project to be superstars, if they are Rox would make them untouchable. That means their future salary is just gonna be in that 30M range and below. So if you compare to someone like Cam Johnson, I rather just pay Jabari Johnson salary in the future cuz Jabari is young and will be here for over a decade while CJ will have 5 yrs and be washed. With the way he is being used, Jabari would also sign a super cheap extension and then overproduce at that salary, for example he signs a 20M deal and then becomes the starting PF eventually. Those savings if everyone is in that situation is gonna make the Rox a contender imo. Sengun ans Amen need guys around their age, thats what OKC did and thats why they are so scary.
Hard to see how consolidating guys on rookie contracts for a "star" helps our payroll this year or next year, the years FVV at $33M/yr would create tax issues. Invariably, the team trading the star is the team cutting short-term salary. Re: OKC - I agree with you that the Thunder are well ahead of the Rockets. IMO it's all the more reason not to start the tax clock this year or next year. Why should we want to start the tax clock for the first time under Tilman Fertitta while another team is clearly better than us and hasn't started the tax clock yet? And agree with you the FO don't want to take a step back next year by losing FVV. I think the point of a lot of this discussion is that you don't need to pay $100M guaranteed to not lose FVV. There is almost certainly not even $60M guaranteed out there for him anywhere else.
We view Fred very differently. I don’t think he’s one of the worst in the league. Far from it. He was overpaid the past 2 seasons but that’s what it took for a very bad Rockets team to bring in a solid vet PG to help establish a new culture and organize the team on and off the court. As for your disgust with the way they are handling it, the Rockets have worked hard to build relationships with players and agents since Stone took over. I see this as doing what is right for both sides. If the Rockets try to give Fred what he wants but if no team is willing to take on his contract via trade, then maybe he is willing to take less money on his next contract or for less time. Maybe he signs a 1+1 with hopes that he can opt out and sign a more significant contract next offseason.
I don't see why we do not pick up his option, reduce his role, and evaluate everyone at end of season We can always package up any combo of Green, Reed, Cam, Jabari, Tari, Sengun, and the Phx 2027 & 2029 picks next off season for a upgrade where needed. At least get FVV contract off the books Most important thing going into next season should be reducing his role and pushing the young guys even more to see who should stay and who should go Pick up the option or trade him for KD
Edit: Sometimes I read a post, and it baffles me because it explains something that I had just assumed. Wait, this isn't common knowledge? Why would the Rockets want to take a step back? They don't have their own pick. The big detriment for re-signing FVV is that FVV is on the team. Some people have a problem with that. Despite some catastrophizing by some, the Rockets know their budget and re-signing FVV is unlikely to cost the Rockets a player. I will laugh when it ends up starting at $33-35M, but the third year is a team option such that all the whining and gnashing of teeth will be for nothing.
It should be common knowlege - but some fans have said to let FVV walk, start Reed and accept losing more games in 2026. I don't see the Rockets front office or owner agreeing to this.
It doesn't help this year - probably not next year either unless it is for KD and you do not re-sign him. I think the Rockets will flirt with that payroll line with or without a trade. My point was more that the Rockets are very likely to make a move for a high level scorer outside the organization in the next couple seasons. Because I don't think ownership is willing to take a step back on the court next year - even if it is foolish down the road. Maybe - but I am not so certain, there are a lot of teams that would love to add FVV.
The impact of FVV was greater in his 1st year when they won 41 than in his 2nd year when they won 52 and correct me if I am wrong was injured for a period of time. So I would think the overall team has improved. All the rebounding, 2nd chance opportunities, defensive schemes got better a notch.
Anything over the MLE and you are negotiating against yourself. I’d do 3/60 with a team option for the final year. Otherwise bring him back on his $44m option and try and trade him. No one should feel like we owe FVV anything. He was purposely overpaid when he arrived.
This is correct. FVV's decline was much smaller than the improvements of Amen, Sengun, and Eason and the bounceback of Brooks.
I think we need to give some credit to the things that Vanvleet brings that aren’t necessarily statistically quantified. As long as we begin scaling his minutes down a bit and increasing the minutes of the second and third year players he’s not holding anything back.
You are clearly either having issues with understanding where a lot of fans are coming from. If you and your friends go to a new burger place and they are selling cheeseburgers for $50, and your friends don't want to get it, it doesn't mean they hate cheeseburgers. It just means they don't think it's a good enough food product for $50. You can disagree with them because YOU believe it's worth $50. But your difference of opinion has nothing to do with whether a burger taste good or not. But rather why would you pay $50 for one when most places get you one for at most maybe $20.
A binary question: Is it better to win games at the expense of developing players. Or Is it better to develop players at the expense of winning games. It's very clear the team is at the end of phase 2 of the rebuilt. They are not prioritizing the development of players. It's winning time. They will NOT play Reed over FVV simply to give him some reps. If they play Reed, it's only because he's playing better.
According to the numbers, he's one of the worst PG's in the league, pretty much on par with Scottie Pippen Jr and 78 year old Mike Conley. His TS% is essentially a hate crime against basketball. He has value defensively and rarely turns the ball over, but he has no business being a starting PG in a serious team. This is made worse by the situation at SG and SF
They are definitely on record showing that the priority is winning meaningless regular season games at the expense of winning when it matters.
I clearly understand that FVV detractors understand the leverage the Rockets have over FVV. You clearly don't understand the leverage FVV has over the Rockets. For your metaphor, you, your friends, and I have $50 gift cards given to us that are only redeemable at the burger place that sells $50 burgers. You and your friends would rather spend $20 on a burger y'all think is just as good with money out of your pockets, rather than using the free gift card of $50 for a burger because a burger shouldn't cost $50. I'll be eating the $50 burger while you and your friends are in the men's room after eating your $20 horsemeat burgers that y'all swear is just as good.
