Yup, the numbers that Vecenie threw out in his Rockets episode, is more in line with the projected value. Apron rules are strict, but as cap gradually rises, it's a matter of % of total cap, and $30 ish Mil for a key starter is not uncommon. Doesn't mean Stone, won't have to walk a fine line in make sure Tari and Bari are also taken care of, but that's why he's paid the big bucks to solve the situation.
100% agree. I think his agent walks in with, hey you guys made the playoffs.... #2 seed, FVV is a huge part etc. I cannot see them take a huge pay-cut. In today's NBA Market, 20 mill goes for bench warmer scrubs. I don't want him signed at all.
Yes. Stop negotiating against ourselves. What team would pay $30 Million/year for Fred? No one. I am willing to take that risk that someone steps up and pays Fred a crazy contract. The Rockets are going to have to make some difficult decisions with player salaries. We can't pay them all $30 Million+/year.
I would say the Jazz are trading Sexton, Markkanan, John Collins, Kessler, but build around Keyonte George and Johnny Juzang, Kenyon Martin. ------- AI Overview +5 Yes, an NBA team can trade a player they just extended, but there are restrictions in place, particularly for extensions that are above a certain threshold. If the extension is within specific limits (a 5% raise and 2 extra years), it can be traded immediately. However, for larger extensions, there's a 6-month no-trade restriction. Here's a more detailed explanation: Extend-and-Trade Restrictions: Limited Extensions: Teams can extend a player and trade them, but the extension must be limited to a 5% raise and a maximum of two additional seasons according to Sports Business Classroom. No-Trade Restriction: For extensions exceeding these limits (e.g., a significant salary increase or more than two additional seasons), the player cannot be traded for six months. Sign-and-Trade: There's also a concept of "sign-and-trade," where a player signs a new contract with a team, and then they are immediately traded to another team. This requires careful planning and adherence to salary cap rules, according to Wikipedia. Designated Veteran Extensions: Players who sign designated veteran extensions can't be traded for a full year after signing.
5 years is way too long. I hope Reed can take over the starting job in 2 years. If he doesn't, then we need to get an upgrade. Fred at 33 years old isn't an ideal timeline for us. I wouldn't give FVV more than 3 years around the 25M per year range.
I'm disappointed that disappointment lurks around the corner.... FVV did an excellent job helping with the redirect, but at this point, he's not what we need! The " Mentoring Vet" designation only works for so long and then your just an "Older Vet" that's holding up the line! I'm sure he's an awesome dude to hang around with, BUT we need points!! We have a solid core of players that play good/excellent defense, what we NEED IS POINTS, not mentoring!! Someone needs to slap Udoka and make him understand that the team that scores the most points ALWAYS wins!! Doesn't matter if you win 2-1 or 200-199!! SCORE MORE POINTS!!! (P.S.) The reason I called out Udoka is that I'm positive he will be the deciding factor in resigning FVV... Go Rockets!!! ....... ....... .......
Let's just pick up his option, heavily reduce his role for development, and be done with him after this year How we gonna give $30million to a bottom 5 point guard who regularly misses 1/4 of the season, has us bottom 3 in assist, last in ball movement, and just had his worst shooting year going into his 30's. I don't get how Jalen's contract is viewed as a negative asset but Fred's extension is acceptable
I would extend both of them with that money. It could go to either one. 30mill to Fred for multiple years is crazy talk
Here is my worry....that Stone takes the safe road to protect his job, and just rides along and hopes we develop.....that way he gets paid the team wins but never really becomes a contender. I believe a true GM would not sign FVV and would go all in on the youngsters and flip some of them for talent like KD or Giannis....I see Stone as a pearl clutcher, a guy who just trades on the margins but never has the guts to make the big move that gets you over the top. Hope I am wrong. DD
I like Fred. I think he has served his purpose on this team (mentor, champion attitude, bulldog mentality, etc.). I think we need a new PG / lead guard to put us over the top (unless there was a change in who FVV was fundamentally). Any AAV north of $25 - $27M would be insane to me and clearly bidding against yourself. That being said... if the move was made with an eye toward moving Fred during the season (along with some draft capital) for another player (Garland?) then I could understand.
The more i think about it, i prefer the gross overpay for 1 yr vs the multi year extension. Just exercise the option at 44m. Extend jabari and tari to similar 25m/y -ish contracts. Let fred walk next year when the extensions kick in. We should even be able to stay under the 1st apron this year with some small moves. Allows fred to groom reed/amen another year and hope they are ready to take over the following year. Also keeps his salary for matching purposes should an unexpected star shake loose at the deadline. That seemingly keeps the books in similar flexible shape and prioritizes the youth over the vets, which i would prefer.
The $30M (+/- $4M) guards are Jalen Green, Quickley, Holiday, Poole, Murray, Herro, McCollum, White, Barrett, Simmons, Vassell, and Rozier. FVV's not better than all these guys. He's not worse than all these guys. Personally, I'd easily have FVV in the top half of the $30Mish Guard Club. Plenty of teams have spent $30Mish on inferior guards that would sign FVV for $30M if they could dump their current $30Mish guard. The only thing that could limit his salary is the lack of teams with cap space this offseason, but on the flip side, the Rockets don't have early Bird rights to other PGs.
I'm not 100% opposed to this but I would hope the Rockets would have an achievable plan B if it becomes clear that neither Amen nor Reed are capable of running the offense. I don't want to see them scrambling a year from now trying to find a full time PG and then losing a season or two of competitiveness because no PG is available at the price we can pay (either cap space or assets in a trade). This is exactly what happened with the Rockets in the late 90s - we took a chance on Brent Price (the chance being his ability to stay healthy) and found ourselves relying on Matt Maloney who outperformed his talent the first year and then declined precipitously afterwards. That killed our championship chances with that squad and I could see the same with our current squad if we let FVV just walk without either 100% confirmation that Amen or Reed can be PGs or getting a true PG successor to FVV. Personally, I'm not convinced Amen is a PG in the NBA due to his lack of shooting and his shaky handle - he seems more like Shawn Marion or Andrei Kirilenko 2.0 but with stronger secondary playmaking (which is fantastic IMO). I'm also not convinced Reed is an NBA player - he never seemed fully comfortable with the speed of the game and it clearly affected his shot. Hopefully I'm wrong on this, but if I were a GM, I would not act as if it's a given that either / both can run the point full-time. If neither is regularly running the point by the middle of next season, I'm prioritizing a trade for a PG.
A prediction on where some of the free agents might go. Seems pretty rational, but you can see as you go through the list, once the Nets and Detroit money is gone, players are not going to have a lot of options other than accept what their current team is offering. A three-year, $97.2 million contract starting at $30 million might do. Houston would probably want another team option for the last year. That figure could dip, especially if the Rockets need room to execute trades while staying under one of the aprons. Perhaps it'd fall to a $25 million starting salary ($81 million total with a team option).
Well it gives us another year of data to analyze these young guys right? If they arent ready and there is no viable option out there, we can bring him back on a (likely) shorter and cheaper contract to keep him and make the requisite moves to balance the roster/books if thats what we determine is the best course of action. He could walk and thats the risk but, personally, I would prefer to bet on the young guys growing over betting on fred and take that potential risk. Because if the young guys dont grow, we arent in a position to compete for a championship and why have fred at that point? This whole rebuild and window relys on growth, so i would double down my bet on the young guys personally.
I have a feeling Patrick & Stone are not as high on FVV as Ime might be and its probably a conversation being had right now between them. I've compared FVV to CP3 in OKC where they let him walk after taking them to the playoffs to focus on development I do not have a issue with Stone. He did pretty damn good for a rebuild. I don't think its time to start trading young guys for KD or Giannis. Giannis too expensive and KD is really only worth it unless for FVV & change. I would rather package Green, Reed, Cam, and whoever in a year or two if needed. I want to see us without Fred or at least how everyone responds to the playoff loss. Hali & Shai probably have GM's nervous about trading young talent for a "superstar" & 1-2 year window
Thats my gut feeling as well but it really is a tough market for free agents this year. I believe Brooklyn and Detroit are the only 2 teams with projected cap space over 10 million? With BKN at 40 and DET 25 ish mill. In the scenario of DET and BKN go elsewhere with their cap, we'd only be competing against MLE money, combined with Freds ego or desire for another ring / city. Theoretically if Fred enjoyed being here, and DET/BKN didn't have interest, a 4/60 offer could be competitive, and a 4/80 generous. I'm expecting between 25-30 (depending on the years) regardless.
Last summer Stone showed me something with the Sengun extension. An ability to get comfortable with being uncomfortable -- executing a negotiation where you take an adversarial stance against a player you've already invested in and who you want to maintain a good working relationship with going forward. If FVV gets much more than $25M/yr, I'd take all that back. If our FO is giving blank checks to guys just because they personally like them and are invested in them, or are cowed by their empty threats of walking or being "upset" that you didn't just give them free money... then I'd wonder what we're doing here. But personally, I still believe that that is not going to happen and FVV will sign for max ~$25M AAV (maybe less) with 2 years guaranteed.
